Rotary Engraver preference

[Jeff Greer]

Hi guys new to the scene - literately. The wife and I bought a established trophy/awards business in August and hit the ground running. I have 22 years in the Tool and Die field and just got burned out after working up to project manager in a large job shop - loved the work - just no reward for it.

Anyways the shop has a new Epilog 75 watt 36x24 and a older Xenetech 16x25 rotary. I am use to running MasterCam X5 so this Corel threw me some wrench's! The Xenetech is a old window's 98 operating software and I just have not got the understanding of doing layout, merging in functional images, etc. I can do alot on it - but there is a ton I can't. It does not have a rotary table with it either.

Money's tight but I think I want to look for a newer rotary engraver that has software that is more user friendly - or easier to learn. Any suggestions??

The business was a Mother daughter run show as the Dad died 4 years ago. I paid the daughter to stay on for a month but I let her go 2 weeks into it - with full pay for the month - as we had a serious personality clash. I could understand some of her emotions of letting the family business go, but man she had a Diva attitude!! So needless to say - self learner here!! Youtube to the rescue!!

Thanks for any input, Jeff Greer

[Mike Null]

Jeff

Welcome to Sawmill Creek. I have a Newing Hall mechanical engraver which can do flat as well as cylindrical items. I've had it for several years and have been very pleased with it. I bought it used and spent a lot of money on updating it but got a new warranty after the overhaul.

The other popular machine, among several, is a Gravograph and they have a few options. There is a trade show in Las Vegas the end of January which I would strongly recommend you attend.

I have sent you a pm as well.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Rather than buying a new engraver, you might want to look into new software. I'd contact the people at Vectric and see if any of their software could work with your machine.

I can recommend Gravograph's machines and kind of their software (good features but very buggy) but I cannot recommend their customer service or pricing.

This looks like an interesting option as well: http://www.xenetech.com/kb/entry/262/

[Dan Hintz]

Jeff,

If you choose to stay with the current Win98 software, I highly suggest you make a backup of the entire drive as soon as possible. This will allow you to restore the system instantly when (not if) it dies.

[Kees Soeters]

In case of a hardware crash, i doubt modern computers can work with W98.. But you can probably still buy good working "stone-age-computers" in the next 10-20 years.
Maybe it's wise to have a look at the hardware:
-can the powersupply and steppermotordrivers still be used? How to connect them to new controllerhardware?
Even with a simple breakoutboard and Mach3 you should be able to drive them.
Your design can be made in almost every millingprogram (Vectric, even the most simple program 2D is fine... Artcam...Deskproto etc)
If you spend some money on a "real/hardware" controller (like Edings-USBCNC ) the software is probably capable of making the toolpaths for you too.

Kees

[Mike Null]

I suggest that you not be in a hurry to buy new/used equipment in order to give yourself time to figure out how much of your business must be done with a mechanical engraver. Mine is used for 10 to 15% of my volume and there are other things that may give you more options and income at far less expense.

[Scott Shepherd]

The Xenetech is a old window's 98 operating software and I just have not got the understanding of doing layout, merging in functional images, etc. I can do alot on it - but there is a ton I can't. It does not have a rotary table with it either.

Welcome Jeff! Glad to have you here. We have a Xenetech running Windows 95 I'll tell you what I know, which may or may not be correct, but it's my understanding. To upgrade our Xenetech, we were quoted about $6,000 from Xenetech. The machine you have is really well built. It runs pretty maintenance free and it's bulletproof. The upgrade issue is your electronics. To upgrade, you need new electronics, which is Xenetechs "Viper" package. If you have that, you can run 3rd party software.

However, we ran across a company that sells their own replacement electronics. It actually goes inside your existing box and allows you to use Engravelab. It's a company out of California and I can't think of the name right now. I had their catalog on my desk forever, and I just saw it a couple days ago but can't put my fingers on it right now. I'll find it and report back. Mike Null knows who it is. It starts with a "Q" and the guys name is Fred- Mike, help me out here.....

Anyway, that's like $2,500 for that board, then you have to buy EngraveLab, which I think is an easy $1,000. So not cheap, but not $6,000 either.

Don't be so quick to throw out your hardware, it's one of the best built in the business. If you need any insight into that side of it, PM me and I'll give you my number and we can talk about it on the phone, which is much easier.

With the older units they are fairly useless. We have no method of getting files into the Xenetech. Todays files are large and that machine doesn't have USB, it's got a 3.5" disc, etc, but aside from that, if you burn something onto a CD, you can get the file in, but the processor is so slow, it's a nightmare trying to import anything with detail, much less manipulate it once it's in there. About the only thing we use ours for is braille, which the Xenetech software does well.

[Mike Null]

Steve

Fred Schwartz at Quality One Engraving. http://q1engravers.com/

To echo what Steve says, Joe Hayes, who is a member here, has your machine and uses it daily. He swears by it.

[Jeff Greer]

Thanks guys, we actually have a lot of work that goes thru it. Not everything in the world can be lasered. I like the idea of retrofitting it as I have EngraveLaB v9 ( IS THIS A RECENT Version?) sitting on the shelf. I think it came with the new laser. I was thinking that Mach 3 could control the Xenetech - but I don't want to go that route with this machine - I have a Hurco CNC mill that I am retrofitting with a Ajax unit and Mach 3.

Anyways, I like my Xenetech - just scared of that software crash - and I like stuff I can get support on too.

On a different note - what does the sellers market hold for 2 old H Square engravers? Old DOS machines to boot, both work - just leftover from days of old.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Thanks guys, we actually have a lot of work that goes thru it. Not everything in the world can be lasered. I like the idea of retrofitting it as I have EngraveLaB v9 ( IS THIS A RECENT Version?) sitting on the shelf. I think it came with the new laser. I was thinking that Mach 3 could control the Xenetech - but I don't want to go that route with this machine - I have a Hurco CNC mill that I am retrofitting with a Ajax unit and Mach 3.

Anyways, I like my Xenetech - just scared of that software crash - and I like stuff I can get support on too.

On a different note - what does the sellers market hold for 2 old H Square engravers? Old DOS machines to boot, both work - just leftover from days of old.

That can change fairly easily. We used to rotary engrave everything. Now we use it far less than the laser. The reality is, the laser is faster and the stock is cheaper than brass. Also the ability to put artwork and logos on everything and not have it take an eternity is a huge benefit which the customers prefer. If you want to, it wouldn't be difficult to switch a huge majority of your customers to a different product or simply switch to laser engraving. You can't force anyone to do anything but if you want to, you can make your business use the rotary a lot less and the laser a lot more.

I'd focus on expanding your use of the laser and mastering the basics of the rotary. Any difficult rotary jobs are very time consuming and rarely profitable. You have a $35-40,000 laser. I'd focus on making that thing the corner stone of your business.

[Tony Lenkic]

Jeff

Is that table manufactured by Xenetech or Western Engravers? In early years Western was building tables for them and in mid '90s Xenetech started making their own that look like the current line you can see on their web site.

These tables are built for lasting productions ( my was built is '95 and still running strong).
Previous owner did not keep up with software and computer interface hardware updates that is why you are running windows 98 version. If I were in your situation I would purchase up to date Xenetech Viper controller and version 6.53 software for around 6K and you will be running this machine for years to come.

You say that you do not understand functionality of layout in software. Does that version have a drawing tools to draw simple lines/circles etc? For complicated drawings you can make designs in your choice of software and as long as you can export your design as PLT file you can import that and save as XLG logo and engrave.

[Randy Digby]

We do everything on laser now but prior to the TroTec we ran one Gravograph (M40) and three Rolands (2 - EGX20 and 1 - EGX300). All were good machines with different capabilities and operated well within their design capabilities. The Gravograph was the better built, and much more expensive of the set. The "buyer beware" I want to offer you, is that if you do look at Gravograph, ask a lot of questions when purchasing the Gravograph software for the engraver (at the time of my purchase dedicated proprietary software was required to run the machine). I went to their facility in Atlanta for demo when we purchased the M40 and came home with the machine. I soon discovered that if I, say, wanted to radius the corners of a rectangle that I would have to purchase an add-on/upgrade to do that function. I had to purchase three add-ons the first day just to do what I consider basic design. Gravograph makes a good machine but I would do everything I could to keep from buying another if I had to go the rotary route again.