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Thread: Initial Laguna IQ HHC Review

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Southern Kentucky
    Posts
    2,218
    Darn shame they can't box Router Bob up and ship him around to help others. Living this close would sure be a big help.
    ---I may be broke---but we have plenty of wood---

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    229
    Ironed out a few more glitches today. Had an issue where X wouldn't travel to the left most side of the work area. The limit sensor tab was too long. Shortened the tab, reset table size and thats good now. Successfully fly cut the spoil boards, but used cheap Chinese Fly cutter that came with machine, ordered quality fly cutter and Vee bit. Starting to feel more comfortable with Hand Held Controller since training with Router Bob.
    Ernie Martinez
    Ocala Florida
    Epilog Mini 24 50W
    Windows 7 Corel X6, PhotoLaser +v9
    Laguna IQ CNC Router
    Vectric Vcarve Pro
    Smithy Granite 1324 Mill/Drill/Lathe
    Grizzly GO621X Bandsaw

  3. #18
    in the beginning of the Chinese imports there was a fellow in Michigan who imported them and dealers who retrofitted them for US use, it was a good thing, they told me stories of taking them out of crates and the paint was sooo shiny then flipping them over only to find rust as the Chinese only painted what you see.. there is a company in Chicago who sells all the parts for them and he is a good fellow, if you end up with the machine and unfortunantly chances are (unless Laguna turns into your hero) you will end up retro fitting to mach 3 or wincnc as the Chinese versions of mach are all bootlegged then get a new seat from the fellows at mach in Canada. a new cnc experience at this level should be fun not an education in machine repair

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by james mcgrew View Post
    a new cnc experience at this level should be fun not an education in machine repair
    I couldn't agree more. I know some people like this level of tinkering and actually enjoy it. My view is that time is money and by the time you add up all the lost hours of production you almost always could have bought a higher end product. Some people value their time at zero, I'm not one of those people. If the machine isn't running and I'm working on it, then there's a paid customer job not getting worked on somewhere in the shop, so it's not a matter of losing $10-15 an hour, it's a matter of losing $90 an hour in billable time, and at $90 per hour, it really starts to add up.

    I don't fault anyone for going that route, everyone has different budgets and different plans, but for me, I just can't do it these days. It's not worth all the hassle. I read a thread in the laser forum where someone said they can't run their laser faster than 30% or the engraving gets fuzzy (it should be able to run at 100%). To me, if I had a machine that I had to turn down to 30%, I'd shove it off the loading dock and plug one in that performed far better. Again, some people are happy and satisfied with that level, I'm just one of them.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bloomington, IL
    Posts
    6,009
    Its awesome to be able to use a shop for fun and enjoyment and because I want to and when I want to and how I want to. Thanks for reminding me of that Steve.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  6. #21
    Hey Scott, If you ever have a CNC machine that you want to push off the dock let me know! I have no problem tinkering with a machine to get back up to 100% capacity.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    229
    Well another update on my Laguna IQ experience. Turns out my Z axis isn't perfectly perpendicular to the table, which causes problems. While investigating on how to align the Z axis, I took a closer inspection at how the Z axis rails are mounted to the machine. The assembly is basically 3/4" stainless rods affixed to aluminum supports which are in turn screwed onto the cast iron block with 4 simple allen head machine screws.(see pic). All the cast iron in the world can't keep any rigidity here. It's just two flat surfaces mated together by friction. Worse yet I found one of the screws to be loose. So much for assembled in USA!

    rails.jpg
    Ernie Martinez
    Ocala Florida
    Epilog Mini 24 50W
    Windows 7 Corel X6, PhotoLaser +v9
    Laguna IQ CNC Router
    Vectric Vcarve Pro
    Smithy Granite 1324 Mill/Drill/Lathe
    Grizzly GO621X Bandsaw

  8. #23
    Many routers are done similar to that. I have a ShopBot that I have to adjust fairly frequently. They used some weird stamped nut and every time you tighten it, it pulls the head out of tram because the nut isn't flat. I replaced it where I could, but it's two spots I can't get to (or haven't spend enough time trying). It doesn't take too much to get them out of tram, but remember, it's a CNC router, not a CNC milling machine. Two totally different animals. You can't expect a router to be built like a milling machine unless you want to get into the big money.

    Honestly, does the head being out of tram .001" over 2" matter on anything you'd cut on a router? Probably not, especially since they don't repeat within .001" anyway.

    Just my opinion.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    229
    Makes a tremendous difference. When I fly my spoil board it leaves a ridge. My current project involves a pocket tool path where I used a .25 mill to clear and a .060 engraver for letters. The tools cut at different depths, even though I'm using a tool touch off probe to make sure that my zero is identical between both tools.

    With respect to mill vs router, I disagree, Laguna makes a big deal about how heavy and rigid their machine is. A machine is only as strong/rigid as its weakest point. All that cast iron is useless if you bolt a flimsy piece of aluminum to it.
    Ernie Martinez
    Ocala Florida
    Epilog Mini 24 50W
    Windows 7 Corel X6, PhotoLaser +v9
    Laguna IQ CNC Router
    Vectric Vcarve Pro
    Smithy Granite 1324 Mill/Drill/Lathe
    Grizzly GO621X Bandsaw

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie Martinez View Post
    Makes a tremendous difference. When I fly my spoil board it leaves a ridge. My current project involves a pocket tool path where I used a .25 mill to clear and a .060 engraver for letters. The tools cut at different depths, even though I'm using a tool touch off probe to make sure that my zero is identical between both tools.

    With respect to mill vs router, I disagree, Laguna makes a big deal about how heavy and rigid their machine is. A machine is only as strong/rigid as its weakest point. All that cast iron is useless if you bolt a flimsy piece of aluminum to it.
    I'm a machinist by trade. I spent over 25 years with CNC metal cutting machines. I can assure you .001" over 2" makes no difference. If you're using a Trupan spoilboard, humidity moves it more than .001" at any given time and pulling a vacuum through it will move it .010" if it's got humidity in it.

    Trust me, a CNC router is not even remotely in the same category as a CNC router. They can say anything that want, I'm talking about the real world. You won't find any CNC milling machines using v-rollers or rack and pinion systems to drive things. They stopped using that stuff in the 1960's or 70's.

    CNC routers are like very primitive NC mills from the 60's and 70's.

    CNC milling machines make CNC routers look like a toy when it comes to rigidity.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    229
    I never said .001 over 2", mine is bad enough that its causing me issues and I need to get it fixed. I also have a mill, albeit a small 3 in 1' and yes I agree, one can't compare rigidity between the two. But the simple fact is that any machine is only as strong as its weakest point. All the cast iron in the world won't make up for a crappy mount, if my z axis is mounted to the side of a locomotive with a rubber band it's going to move. A non keyed friction only mount of aluminum to cast iron is not very rigid, the aluminum alone will flex, additionally, the aluminum is going to slide as the mounting holes elongate.
    Ernie Martinez
    Ocala Florida
    Epilog Mini 24 50W
    Windows 7 Corel X6, PhotoLaser +v9
    Laguna IQ CNC Router
    Vectric Vcarve Pro
    Smithy Granite 1324 Mill/Drill/Lathe
    Grizzly GO621X Bandsaw

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie Martinez View Post
    But the simple fact is that any machine is only as strong as its weakest point. All the cast iron in the world won't make up for a crappy mount, if my z axis is mounted to the side of a locomotive with a rubber band it's going to move. A non keyed friction only mount of aluminum to cast iron is not very rigid, the aluminum alone will flex, additionally, the aluminum is going to slide as the mounting holes elongate.
    That's very true, and many times the weak points are where they are to prevent damage to other points that would be more costly. Just be aware of that prior to making it rock solid. It means when you have a crash, it's not going to shift that around, but rather move down the line to the next weakest point, which could be costly, depending on what that item is.

    Like I said, I own a ShopBot that moves all the time, so your problem isn't unique to Laguna.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    San Jose del Cabo, Mexico
    Posts
    329
    you need to shim the router mount to align with table...pretty easy fix
    Creative Woodwork and Design
    Vector Studio 22

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    229
    Another update on my Laguna IQ HHC. Well today I decided to get back to work after a long Holiday break. First thing was there was no water flowing through my spindle, turned out something clogged it, I had to blow the out of it with an air compressor, but the flow is pretty weak. Then I started cutting out a sign for a job I just got. Very simple raised letters with some VCarved embellishments. My first tool path was a Clear Cut for the pocket tool path, 2 passes @ 1/8" depth. Some where in pass # 2 the machine would just decide to move the Y origin about + 1.5". Destroying the work already done. I would run it again, and it would work, so put a new peice of Red Oak, and wham, it would do it again. Spent the entire day trying to fidure this out, and wasted a lot of good wood. I finally swapped the HHC with a spare that Laguna sent on a previous problem, and that may have fixed the problem. I'll know more tomorrow.

    In troubleshooting the problem, I was varying feed rates thinking maybe the load may have had something to do with the issue, unfortunately without proper documentation I don't know what my actual feed rates are since the HHC controller has a parameter called "Process Speed" which alters feed rate, but how I have no idea how, and neither does Laguna Support. So I can set Process speed to 1000, or 2000, or 4000, or any number in between, but what does it all mean????? This controller is the biggest piece of I have ever dealt with. Ironically I thought that this was a feature as opposed to a PC tethered to the machine. It's a curse, and soon I'm going to chuck it and replace it with WinCNC.

    So here we go, $5500 for the machine, then another $1300 for an HSD spindle, then another $1300 for WinCNC and electronics, and computer. hmmm, I could have gotten a Stinger with all the upgrades. Not to mention all the hours I have burned fixing their mistakes, wasted material and jobs lost.

    So far this purchase has been a real loser. To anyone considering one of these all I can say is STAY AWAY!
    Last edited by Bruce Page; 01-09-2013 at 9:59 PM.
    Ernie Martinez
    Ocala Florida
    Epilog Mini 24 50W
    Windows 7 Corel X6, PhotoLaser +v9
    Laguna IQ CNC Router
    Vectric Vcarve Pro
    Smithy Granite 1324 Mill/Drill/Lathe
    Grizzly GO621X Bandsaw

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    308
    Sorry to hear all the problems you are having with your machine ...... Wincnc is GREAT software
    Hardware:
    CAMaster 508 ATC + Recoil
    2013 Trotec Speedy 100, 60 watt, rotary attachment, vector grid.
    Software:
    CoralDraw - Aspire 9 - EnRoute

    Custom Architectural Signage
    Mick Martin Woodworking

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