"Polyester" finish

[Larry Whitlow]

I was recently vacationing with a group in Italy and had a few moments to drop into a place that sold ornate furniture with extensive use of inlays. The guy there told us they use a "polyester" finish which I should not confuse with polyurenthane. I wasn't able to find out more because the group I was with had to move on.

Anyone know -- what is a "polyester" finish?

[Rich Engelhardt]

My best guess would be it's something highly flamable and very tacky & probably made in the mid 1970's.

[Dale Cruea]

Google "Polyester Finish Wood".

[John Coloccia]

It's just what it says. It's a polyester resin finish. Many guitar builders have started using UV cured polyester because of the look, durability and finish times. It's a great wood finish though it's best use is when sprayed, sanded flat and buffed. Polyester is also used to lay up fiberglass for things like boats. It's mainly used in this capacity over epoxy because epoxy is a lot more expensive.

Incidentally, ZPoxy finishing resin (epoxy) makes a wonderful grain filler and has also become very popular with guitar builders. There are some really great techniques and products out there that few seem to really ever hear about outside of the small communities like instrument builders and the like.

Anyhow, IMHO polyester is probably not a practical finish for most unless you're setup for it.

[sheldon pettit]

I could write a hundred pages and still not cover everything about polyester finishes and finishing. "google" polyester finishes if you want info for curiosity sake. From a profesional standpoint, i would not reccomend it for anyone that is not a pro finisher with a proper shop and equipment for handling and application.

Pardon me, other have reccomended google also while i was typing my reply, sorry, but they are correct on that point.

[David Hawxhurst]

alright sheldon, i am game for a recommend polyester and a comparison of it to the delta labs 2k urethane. i got the delta labs stuff and i like it a lot. some basic googling leads me to believe that polyester might be a nice looking finish as well as more durable. since your past recommendations have worked very well for me i'm will to take your recommendation for a good polyester and any tips on applying it. i currently on have a 4 stage hvlp system.

[sheldon pettit]

David, there is no comparison of polyesters to 2 K urethanes, sorry. Two different animals so to say I assume you meant you currently "only" have a 4 stage hvlp system, correct? If so, then you may be able to spray polyester if your fluid tip and needle are large enough, I was using a 3mm fluid tip and needle with a devilbiss gun and 2 gal. pressure pot for most of my work accept for small jobs, then a SS gun with quart cup will suffice. Didn't ever try to spray with hvlp, except for gravity feed 3mm types with standard air spray.

As to 2K urethanes they are good for barrier coats put down first to lock in any contaminates or oils the wood might contain naturally or otherwise. For that i prefer a rosewood barrier 2k from seagraves which is what i used for polyester pianos and guitars, overkill? You betcha, but you don't want to take chances with this stuff, it's hard to redo if it messes up or you mess up ok? Illva and duratech polyesters were my favorites, but i'm sure there are other good ones out there, most of the chemistry is quite similiar. The best would be an acrylic polyester, but i know of no one making any at present though there might be. The cost is or would be much higher for this type of product ,compared to a normal styrene based ones. Not that those are bad, most are such, just that acrylic ones in my opinion are better All have given me more than satisfactory results, but i tend to stay with the American companies in most anything i use, but i don't expect others to take my lead, to each his own. I'll try to look up the ones i was using in 2002 for yacht work in Florida, they also were quite nice but really no different than what i'm writing you.

LEARNING" to use them is another story and in the beginning a PITA, that said once you get it down you can produce incredible looking deep and clear finishes that will out perform almost all others. Last thing i used from Duratec was there 904-045 super high gloss clear, great product, i don't have the others at my finger tips at the moment but i will look through my literature and see if i can find any ok?


HAWKEYE INDUSTRIES/ John Rae president/ durall plastics/ all the same company. Talk to John to see what his best products are of late since i have not used any in the last decade ok?

HAWKEYE is in Georgia, phone: 770-977-3336, again if that's no longer valid try info ok? Tell John that SAM pettit recommended him, get pricing also, used to be about 80 bucks a gallon but that was quite awhile ago, could be twice that by now or more.... who knows

[Larry Whitlow]

Thanks. I was curious and sure I would get some good info here. It didn't occur to me that it is the same or similar to what is used for fiberglass lay-up. It looked good on the furniture in both satin and gloss. I wasn't sure of durability but sounds like it would stand up well. I did google it as some of you suggested. As I expected there was more info than I could swallow, and I agree that I am not likely to use it for anything coming out of my shop.


Take care.

Larry

[David Hawxhurst]

i will probably get some to play with. and i thought epoxy pot life was short at about 20-30 mins most of these polyesters stuff has 15min or so and gets less with higher temps.

sheldon - the polyester would go over the stuff from delta labs then? or should i just look at getting a polyester sealer instead of using the the delta labs stuff? is the hawkeye stuff have a deeper look than the delta labs stuff (i know two different animals, but can i achieve similar results)? how much does coating thickness play into how the depth look (not sure that is the right term)? thicker coat deeper look?

[sheldon pettit]

i will probably get some to play with. and i thought epoxy pot life was short at about 20-30 mins most of these polyesters stuff has 15min or so and gets less with higher temps.

sheldon - the polyester would go over the stuff from delta labs then? or should i just look at getting a polyester sealer instead of using the the delta labs stuff? is the hawkeye stuff have a deeper look than the delta labs stuff (i know two different animals, but can i achieve similar results)? how much does coating thickness play into how the depth look (not sure that is the right term)? thicker coat deeper look?

David, the main reason i switched to using 2K urethane's like delta was to get away from using polyesters as much as possible. the biggest and most worthy point of polyester is it's extra hardness that exceeds 2K's, At the times i was using them, the cost of polyester was much cheaper than Delta or others 2K's, thus a way to build the finish cheaper over-all than with just using 2K itself. 2K's are much less fussy to work with and except in those instances where my clients insisted on the finish being straight polyester with no overcoats of catalyzed varnish/2K's/or other durable finishes used to ease the sanding and polishing time of a pure polyester, like on Yacht's or musical instruments like pianos, guitars, etc., i gladly stayed away from using them.

Delta's and others like them with the same good chemistry can build just as well and have longer better pot life, easier sanding, just as good of gloss and depth and better leveling properties etc.. In fact that is why they came about to take the place of using polyester to begin with, are they as hard? No, most definitely not, but if and when damaged, 2K repairs alot easier than polyester i came to find out. It is also why guitar companies like Paul Reed Smith [PRS} uses them over their polyester base encapsulation to turn out stunning looking finishes. If and when a 2k gets damaged, it can be sanded off or even stripped, with out adversely affecting the polyester and recoated with the 2 K and put back into perfect condition - a plus for the 2 resin systems used in combination for sure. But a waste of time in my findings. Play with the polyesters if you like, but stick with the 2K as much as possible ok?

As to 2K barrier coats, almost all are some type or formula of urethane's, though duratec does have a polyester barrier coat as do some others. They have incredibly short pot life's in comparison to 2K's and do-not do as good a job in my findings and i worked with them alot back when, 80's-2004. If you accidentally sand through the thin coat recommended to use you may have and i did have problems with adhesion and appearance problems. With using 2k's, that was never a concern.

[David Hawxhurst]

well based on that i'm going to stick with delta's 2k stuff. it is easy to work with, looks good and sprays very well. i may get some polyester stuff just to try out. thanks for your input it has been very helpful.