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Thread: Cermark Turning Brown, Fading Months Later

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Saint Petersburg, Florida
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    Exclamation Cermark Turning Brown, Fading Months Later

    I metal marked these pieces of Stainless Steel back in January. Now the client just came (10 months later) to me stating this was happening to the metal pieces. I would like to help but want to make sure it was an error on my part and not something they did to them that messed it up. Has anyone had this problem before? I don't get why now all of a sudden they would start doing this.

    Thanks for the help.

    image_1351007292985267.jpg
    Daniel Markovich
    Etchd Unlimited

    designer/owner

    "Epilog EXT 50 Watt"

  2. #2
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    Those tags look very abused to me , like they been in an etch or acid bath or something ?
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  3. #3
    According to Ferro

    Physical Testing of LMM-6000 Laser Marks

    Laser marks were made on type 304 stainless steel tags using LMM-6000 and a CO2 Laser.
    Marks were made at settings of 100% power, 12% speed, 500 DPI on a
    35 watt Universal Laser.
    Tags were totally immersed in the test solutions.
    Exposure Time
    Organic Solvents 1 Hour 12 Hours 24 Hours 1 Week
    Gasoline No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Limonene No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Methyl Ethyl Ketone No effect No effect No effect No effect
    N-Butanol No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Mineral Spirits No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Xylene No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Acetone No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Propylene Carbonate No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Ethanol No effect No effect No effect No effect
    DMSO No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Motor Oil No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Acid/Bases
    Hydrochloric Acid 35% No effect No effect Test stopped - see notes
    Nitric Acid 68% No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Sulfuric Acid (conc.) No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Acetic Acid 99.5% No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Hydrogrn Peroxide 30% No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Sodium Hydroxide 25% No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Ammonium Hydroxide 20% No effect No effect No effect No effect
    Other
    Boiling H2O Marks soaked in boiling water for 1 hr. - no effect
    LN2 (Cold) Marks dipped in liquid nitrogen - no effect
    Flame (Hot) Marks heated in a propane flame until cherry red - metal
    discolors, no effect on mark.
    Hot/Cold Cycling Marks heated red hot and immediately plunged in liquid nitrogen
    - metal discolors, no effect on mark
    Notes:
    Hydrochloric acid testing: - Acid dissolves the steel tag and was not run over 12 hrs. long
    - After 1 hr. acid dissolved 0.2767 gms off of steel tag (4.7%),
    laser mark was unaffected.
    - After 12 hrs. acid dissolved 1.8057 gms off of steel tag (30.6%),
    laser mark was unaffected, now having a distinctly raised feel.
    Sulfuric acid testing: - Acid discolors at approximately 96 hrs., mark appears to be
    slightly discolored.
    Copyright © 2012 Ferro Corporation - All Rights Reserved | Privacy Statement | Legal Notices | Terms of Use | Site Map
    Ernie Martinez
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Ever try removing a Cermark mark ?
    We engraved 50 stainless steel vacuum flasks erroneously and no amount of stainising wheel or sanding helped to completely remove the mark , we resorted to sticking them in a lathe and taking a lick off the circumference.
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    2x Gravo manual engravers , Roland 540 large format printer/cutter. CLTT setup
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  5. #5
    Those tags look like they've been through the mill... literally! What were they used for, how were they used and what conditions were they exposed to in the past 10 months? Without knowing these things, you can hardly be expected to explain the wear. They could very well have been put into a tumbler for cleaning things for all you know.
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  6. #6
    I have never had a piece returned but I have had some show up on inspection before shipment. I generally attribute that to poor cleaning or poor application.

    I agree with Dee that they look like they've had some abuse.
    Mike Null

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  7. #7
    The tags look like they have been tumbled in a parts cleaner or surface conditioner. The edges look rounded and the surfaces peened. The center photo also looks like the tag has been chemically colored.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Texarkana, TX
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    That looks liks surface contamination. If you used steel wool or some other carbon material to clean the SS surface then the surface was impregnated with the carbon and will show signs of surface flash rust in a very short time. We do a lot of SS fabrication here and we must passivate the surface after we fabricate to remove the surface carbon contamination and restore the surface oxide which prevents the flash rust.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    I had the same thing happen to one of my pieces, but that was aluminum. (6063)it
    turned brownish, then lighter till it was tan colored.
    I thought the sun had bleached it out, since it was near a window, but
    it only took a couple of months and it was sitting on a shelf with NO handling
    or abuse.

    I should take some pics. That was the pen that won the Ferro contest.
    (never did see any prize from that contest...)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Stone View Post
    That was the pen that won the Ferro contest.
    (never did see any prize from that contest...)
    Interested in this story... I think I'd like my picture removed if I wasn't compensated, as promised.
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  11. #11
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    it isn't that they refused.. just never caught anyone by phone and
    no reply to emails. Not like i can leave a number.. I don't get cell
    service here most of the time. Still .. 8 months

  12. #12
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    I'm wondering if those are tags that are used for identifying chrome parts, which can be exposed to all types of chemicals and gases that possibly weren't tested.
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  13. #13
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    uuuugh! I hate cermark.

    A customer just contacted me to say that the cermarked item done 6 months ago is fading.

    Do you think it's possible to use a black dye or ink (that won't stick to metal) to color/darken the cermarked areas?
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  14. #14
    Join Date
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    similar issue

    Daniel
    I recently had a similar issue on some flask that I did. I determined that only the edges were discoloring and it was probably due to the curvature of the flask getting the beam out of focus. I re-sprayed them and put them back in the laser only this time I set my focus a little closer, turned the speed down a little and the ppi up to 1000. It worked. I just checked one of the flask and It is still perfect.
    On yours though I agree with everyone else. They look as though they have been subjected to some very harsh conditions.


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  15. #15
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    10 months later and abused like that...... tell him it's time to buy new ones....
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