Car Analogy for Jointer Decision... Help...

[John Hulett]

Wow... I really don't know what to do. As a total beginer, I'm torn. Everything I read and hear says to just save up for an 8" jointer. I was really thinking hard about that new Grizzly G0586, but...

I've been keeping my eye out on eBay for anything - there's a 6" Delta in my area that I may be able to get between $300-350 (auction ends Monday).

Today, LOML and I ran into someone at Rockler she used to work with. In talking to him, he says that Grizzly is junk - he wouldn't take it for free. I'm thinking this is like asking a Chevy guy what he thinks of Ford. Of course, he's waiting on delivery of his new DJ-20. He goes on to say that his 6" made due for 12 years and I'd be fine if I went with one too.

Maybe I would be, but when I look at lumber (without my tape measurer) it seems like I would be REALLY limited if I bought a 6" jointer.

I guess my approach is to say, I don't want a Geo, and I'm not sure I need a Cadillac; Chevy or GMC will suit me just fine.

So, should I....

1. Pop for a used 6" Delta and have a little extra a the Pamona WW show
2. Spend my every last dime on the new Grizz 8"
3. Save up for several more months, waiting for the DJ-20

[Richard Wolf]

The 8" Grizzly is a great choice. Alot of people are very happy with Grizzly machines. I also have a few and the quality is usually fine. If you get it and something is wrong, their customer service will work out a resolution. I feel you are better off with an 8" Grizzly than a 6" Delta or Jet.

Richard

[Scott Coffelt]

John,

As an owner of many different brands of tools including Grizzly, I would have to disagree with the person. Yes, some older Grizzly items were not good, but that is not the case these days. You can go to many major companies all around this land and find a line of green.

I personally will be buying the G0586 myself. If it is anything like the G0513 and 1023S I own, I will not be disappointed.

There are other items out ther you can get as well that will be good, so in the end it will be your choise, ut I would not hesitate to buy a Grizzly product.

[Tim Morton]

I would get the griz, and I would not listen to anyone who makes a statement like you heard today. Delta had its own problem with jointer beds several years ago on the 6" machines, but that doesn't make THEM junk. In the last 6 years since i have been reading alot of woodwrking fourms I have NEVER heard any seriouls problems within Grizzly. I think you would be happy for a lifetime with the 8" Grizzly. Its would be like buying a Brand new Tundra instead of a used Tacoma to use your analogy.

[Matt Woodworth]

I have an inexpensive 8" jointer (Yorkcraft). I've never regretted my decision to go with 8" for a second. As a matter of fact, someday I'd like to go bigger. If I was in the market today I'd get the new grizzly.

FWIW, grizzly used to have a well earned reputation for low quality products. Over the last ten years or so their quality (and prices) have gone up considerably. For example, their 1023 cabinet saw is about the same price as a unisaw now. I know a few guys in woodworking retail and sometimes they tend cling to the idea that grizzly is still low quality. I think it's wishful thinking on their part.

[John Scane]

The first Jointer I had was a delta 6". I had it for about 3 years and almost the whole time I wished I had an 8". For the small price increase to get an 8" it's worth it! I now have a 10" Oliver jointer and I'm already thinking of getting a 16" jointer.
I had a Grizzly lathe and it seemed ok but I sold it because I don't use it much anymore. I'm sure the jointers are good.....besides they are easy to tweek and adjust if you are at all machanical.
Go with the 8.

[John Miliunas]

Johh, while I may not give 100% support to buying a Grizz, I certainly agree with Tim by the fact that anyone making a statement like the one made against Grizzly is either, completely close-minded, doesn't have a clue what they're talking about, has had a terribly bad experience with one of their products or is just a tool snob. A couple years ago, my situation was such that there was just no way I could fit anything larger than a 6" jointer in my smaller shop and I went with Grizz. I did end up with a minor issue, but Grizzly took care of it to my satisfaction. Would I consider another Grizzly tool? Sure. Why not? The little jointer I had did everything I asked of it and did it nicely! Fast-forward about a year and I ended up in a shop much larger than what I had. I decided to go the 8" route and found a good home for the Grizz. I could afford it and ended up with a fantastic deal on a DJ20 (non-X5), but I really wanted the advantage of the parallelogram designed beds. Other than that, most any jointer out there today, manufactured within specs will do a fine job. As someone told me when I was doing my search, jointers are relatively simple pieces of equipment. I imagine there may be exceptions, but I don't see any mainline jointers as being the "Hugo" of equipment. Grizz, Jet, Delta, Bridgewood, Powermatic and so on, all have some nice units. If you have the room, I would certainly opt for an 8" unit. The Cadillac in this bunch may indeed be the DJ20, but it's still NOT the Porsche! For that, you need to step up to one of the Euro models and some REAL big buck$$$! Regardless, the majority of what you'll be looking at out there are the Chevy and Fords, not the Geo's! Then, it does become a matter of most bang for your buck, as well as the type of support you can expect from the vendor and OEM. Best of luck in your search!

[John Hulett]

Thanks folks! What I'm reading here is pretty much what I was thinking. This validation helps a great deal.

[scott spencer]

Hi John - In the end you and the LOYL will have to make the executive decision. The comment about Griz is off base. Their jointers come from the same factory as Sunhill, Jet, GI, Bridgewood, Woodtek, and others. Very nice jointers, several of which have earned top marks in mags. My Griz G1182HW was Wood's #1 pick in the Sept 2001 jointer review.

Delta makes three 6" jointers....the little benchtop that I wouldn't recommend, the JT360 (aka 37-190) that I wouldn't pay $300 for used b/c it sells new for $350, and the 37-275x (aka 37-195) that sells new for ~ $580....$350 for that machine is a good price if it's in good condition.

The Yorkcraft 6" jointer through Wilke is a clone of the 37-275 and is said to come from the same factory. Both are very good jointers, but be aware that the rack and pinion fence adjust mechanism sticks out the back a ways.

If you can score the used Delta in that price range, you'd be able to recoup nearly you whole investment if you resold it at a later date. (that auction price may make the decision easy if it goes high) That said, I'd still love to have the width capacity an 8" jointer offers, but it's also nice to have some cash for wood and other accessories (like food! ).

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

[Doug Shepard]

Think about what kind of projects you're likely to build and whether that's going to require face-jointing capabilities wider than 6". I wish I had room for an 8" and obviously bigger is better if you can afford and fit it. But I think you'd probably find that for a large majority of your work that a 6" would probably serve you well. For small furniture projects that I typically find myself making, there really haven't been that many occasions when having an 8" was really necessary. That wouldn't stop me from upgrading to an 8" if I could fit one in my shop, but you can get an awful lot done with a 6". And I'm sure as soon as I got an 8", there'd be plenty of times I'd kick myself and wish I'd gotten a 12" instead. There's always something that won't fit on whatever you buy, but you'll find ways to work around it.
Whether you go 6" or 8", you might also want to research the Powermatic 54 or 60. I've occasionally seen ads for the discontinued original 54/60 at very good prices instead of the newer, longer, more expensive 54A/60B. Apparently some dealers still have some new 54/60's floating around that they're discounting to clear them out.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Don't own a Griz product but it's one of the companies that I'm considering when my b/s purchase comes up. But.........in a slight defense of the guy who you spoke with........I used to be a Chevy man until my 1983 K-5 Blazer. I ordered it and 5 transmissions later, 3 major brake failures later; 4 /12 years old, spent 4 1/2 months in the garage, 23,000 miles on it........as a person who services equipment I know that equipment/products can have problems and FEW of them CAN NOT be fixed. The calloused attitude of the regional Chevrolet management towards my problems.......Prior to the Blazer I'd owned more Chevy's that any other brand of vehicle, since then I haven't owned a Chevy. Burn me once shame on you.....burn me twice shame on me. Will I ever own another Chevy?....Maybe but it'll take a tremendous product and reputation to get me to try it again. Will I ever own a Griz? Don't know but based on the satisfied SMCers I'll most certainly seriously consider it!

[JayStPeter]

When I first started reading Badger Pond forums a number of years ago, there were lots of people who would say that any Asian import was junk. Now that Delta, Powermatic and others are made there, I guess they just have to pick specific brands from the old days. I pay these people no mind. One of them convinced me that I should buy a used Delta 14" drill press instead of a new Grizzly. It's the least favorite tool I own.
I have a Grizzly 1018 that I bought used. It is now around 8 years old. I really don't have any problems with it. I'm pretty picky too ... a tool snob if you will . For most of my tools, I have a "wish I cold've afforded .." version. For example, I wish I could've afforded a MM bandsaw over my Grizzly. Even though I think the Grizzly is very acceptable, I still want a MM. In the case of the jointer, the only upgrade dream is a wider cutterhead machine. I don't wish I could've afforded a DJ20 or PM60. IMO, a jointer is a jointer.
If you do buy a used 6", keep your eye out for a better deal than you currently have. You can get new 6" jointers delivered to you for around $400. As far as I know, theres nothing that makes the Delta better than any of the others. I'd shoot for less than $300.

Jay

[Ray Bersch]

Ken makes a most important point - it's often not the problem with a product but the treatment you get from the company - none of us are perfect and we should understand mistakes and imperfections (I am not speaking about junk here, understand) - but to be mistreated by Customer Service is the killer for me - and I have a long memory - I have never, and will never, buy a another Chrysler product because of the treatment I got when a brand new car threw a rod at 2,400 miles - and that was in 1970!!!!

Ray

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Johh, while I may not give 100% support to buying a Grizz, I certainly agree with Tim by the fact that anyone making a statement like the one made against Grizzly is either, completely close-minded, doesn't have a clue what they're talking about, has had a terribly bad experience with one of their products or is just a tool snob. A couple years ago, my situation was such that there was just no way I could fit anything larger than a 6" jointer in my smaller shop and I went with Grizz. I did end up with a minor issue, but Grizzly took care of it to my satisfaction. Would I consider another Grizzly tool? Sure. Why not? The little jointer I had did everything I asked of it and did it nicely! Fast-forward about a year and I ended up in a shop much larger than what I had. I decided to go the 8" route and found a good home for the Grizz. I could afford it and ended up with a fantastic deal on a DJ20 (non-X5), but I really wanted the advantage of the parallelogram designed beds. Other than that, most any jointer out there today, manufactured within specs will do a fine job. As someone told me when I was doing my search, jointers are relatively simple pieces of equipment. I imagine there may be exceptions, but I don't see any mainline jointers as being the "Hugo" of equipment. Grizz, Jet, Delta, Bridgewood, Powermatic and so on, all have some nice units. If you have the room, I would certainly opt for an 8" unit. The Cadillac in this bunch may indeed be the DJ20, but it's still NOT the Porche! For that, you need to step up to one of the Euro models and some REAL big buck$$$! Regardless, the majority of what you'll be looking at out there are the Chevy and Fords, not the Geo's! Then, it does become a matter of most bang for your buck, as well as the type of support you can expect from the vendor and OEM. Best of luck in your search!

What's the parallelogram design mean on the DJ20 and how does it make performance better? I've heard this mentioned and wonderd what it meant. It must be part of what makes this such a great machine. Alan BTW good post John.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Alan the parallelogram design means that the infeed table moves on an arch which keeps it's leading edge closer to the cutterhead. This means that you get better chip breakage (less tearout).

At least that is what I have gathered on it.