Veritas Rip Saw chatter

[Adam Cruea]

I'm trying to make my workbench here (hickory), and while trying to cut a tenon, I noticed something. . .my rip saw pulls to the right like crazy.

At first I thought it was me. I tried and tried and tried on my first tenon on this thing to cut straight, and it kept veering. I also noticed it chattered, but figured I didn't have it tied down well enough. Today, I tried to cut a second tenon out; same chatter, and this time I knew it was the saw. . .it actually bounced out of a 1/2" deep cut, and it was pulling to the right.

So, I got out my little Veritas crosscut. Straight, clean line, no chatter. Went straight down, no issues, and it was like cutting butter (okay, cold butter ).

Either way, any suggestions on things I should be wary of with my rip saw? At the toe of the blade, I can cut and it doesn't chatter. When I get about halfway back, it almost seems to just dig in and refuse to go further. I've waxed a little, coated the blade in a fine sheen of wax, (thinking maybe the blade was just getting too hot) and nothing. Zilch. Still chatters.

Ideas? Thoughts? I have 2 16" tenon saws coming from Bad-Axe within 10 weeks (at most), but until then, I need a rip saw to finish up my workbench.

Thanks, y'all.

[Mike Allen1010]

Hi Adam,

A couple thoughts:

1) saw that won't track layout lines usually means too much set on the side it pulls to. Run a finish stone, heal to toe along the saw plate on the side it pulls towards. Take a pass and then re-try. Will groove your stone so maybe use pieces of a broken fine stone or worn smooth mill file.

2) Lay straight edge along tooth line. You may have " proud" tooth at the point where the saw grabs. Flatten in line with other teeth (jointer and smooth mill file). You should re- profile rake angle/ height of flattened teeth and re- sharpen as needed.

3) You're probably already doing this, but when sawing tenon shoulders tilt the top of tenon away from you in the vice and saw along shoulder line from top to cheek line. The reverse orientation is sawing "uphill" and will produce chattering every time.

4) Last thought is bit of a reach, but adding 5 degrees of fleam angle to rip teeth will help them track straight in wandering grain. This shouldn't be a problem with premium saw like LV, especially with small tennon shoulder rips - really applies more to ripping larger stock.

Regards, Mike

[Jim Matthews]

Brand new saw that pulls?

I bet the folks at Lee Valley will gladly help.
Other than the quick pass with a fine honing stone,
you could clamp the saw plate in a machinist's vise
(no doubt you know an old man with one)

put a piece of paper on each side of the sawplate - leaving the teeth uncovered.
The teeth should clear the paper, and touch the vise walls.

When the sawplate is compressed in the vise, the paper acts as a spacer.
I saw this on a YouTube video by BadAxe or Wentzloff, I believe.

FYI - The German saw I sent your Pa was lightly stoned to cut true.
I would try that first - use no pressure, just a light pass.

Jim
wpt, ma

[george wilson]

I would only use a SMOOTH jawed machinist's vise to do that.Otherwise,some of the teeth will go down between the diamond pattern and not get squeezed. Plus,the diamond pattern will damage the cutting edges of some of the teeth.

Trouble is,I have had to grind off the diamond pattern from any machinist's vise I have ever had,except from my present one.

Might just be better to return it to Veritas for correction. If you go stoning it and mess it up or alter it,they might not like it.

[Dale Cruea]

Adam,
You should talk to LV. They should be glad to check it out and repair or send you a new one.
Work on something else until you get a saw.
Your bench is looking good, don't mess it up because of your impatiences.

[Adam Cruea]

Mike - Yeah, I've tried sawing close to every which way I can. Every time, about halfway back from the toe to the heel, it just halts and I feel like I'm trying to push a car. I draw the saw back to start a cut, and I can saw down about 1/4 of an inch before it's like trying to push a car. So, as you and Jim suggested, I will try and check the teeth.

Jim - It's not new, per se. (edit: Purchased 02/02/12). Lightly used, shall we say? I used it to make my pine workbench outside, and it worked just fine. After that everything my wife wanted needed done with power tools, so it got lightly oiled with pneumatic oil, put back in the plastic bag with the tooth guard, and put back in the box. Now that y'all mention it, though, I will check the teeth and make sure one didn't get bent. Though ever since I got it, I never could track a line with it. It cuts straight, just never followed a line.

Dad - Thanks. I can just use my crosscut from LV for now until I get the Bad-Axe saws. Or. . .hmmmmm. . .maybe I could expand my saw nest due to a "non-working" saw. . .

On a side note, the other two saws from the (my crosscut and dovetail) cut absolutely beautifully and were well worth the money. One complaint is that the plate isn't big enough. It's like they don't expect you to cut 4" deep tenons or something. lol

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Brand new saw that pulls?

I bet the folks at Lee Valley will gladly help.

For sure. Don't mess with it if it is new..... Unless you call them, explain the problem, and they agree to deal with it even AFTER you have messed with it.

you could clamp the saw plate in a machinist's vise
(no doubt you know an old man with one)

put a piece of paper on each side of the sawplate - leaving the teeth uncovered.
The teeth should clear the paper, and touch the vise walls.

When the sawplate is compressed in the vise, the paper acts as a spacer.
I saw this on a YouTube video by BadAxe or Wentzloff, I believe.

I saw Ron Herman do this in person (I own his videos, but have not watched that one yet.... since I saw him do it in person).

[Jim Matthews]

Found it.

Pop Woodworking shows Mike Wentzloff using a McMaster-Carr catalog page.
The paper is folded over, with the teeth in the crease.

If the vise jaws are not smooth, smooth steel jaw liners could be made with card scraper stock (I suppose).

I'm just impressed with the speed of this, but that doesn't take into account the man's years of experience.
I knew I hadn't imagined this...

[Adam Cruea]

Just wanted to say thanks for the suggestions, all.

I ended up running my 1000 Norton over the right side of the saw a couple of times. It no longer pulls to the right, and oddly now, doesn't chatter so much.

I have noticed that is seems to have almost no set. When I go to pull the saw out from the cut I make, it almost binds. Granted, I am sinking this thing in 2" into hickory. :-P Slap a blade's worth of paraffin on it, though, and it gets back to cutting very nicely.

I did notice, though, that I have to start the saw almost at close to a 10-20* angle off the wood, let the heel get down to the line I'm cutting to, and then slowly sink the toe down. Is this normal? From some of the videos I'd seen of guys cutting tenons, they started at around a 45* angle and let the toe drop from there.

Again, thanks for the help guys (and maybe gals).