cyclone selection-- Onieda, Grizzly, or Penn State

[Ole Anderson]

David,

Cincinnati fan seems to be your favorite. How accessible and affordable are these units to the typical hobbyist on this forum? And if they are looking for a cyclone, how well do those mate to an available cyclone? And wouldn't a fan need to be designed for a specific cyclone, or isn't that all that critical? Finally, could you give us a good example of a 3 hp Cincinnati fan/motor unit with a cyclone, with part numbers that would be a step up from a CV or Oneida or Grizzly with comparative system pricing?

[phil harold]

There needs to be a study of connecting each cyclone up to the same duct work and equipment and then testing how well each does with and without their filters
Until this is done it is all conjecture...

[Matt Meiser]

Really no need. The Oneida and Grizzly both have proven to be great over and over in various shops.

[Paul McGaha]

Really no need. The Oneida and Grizzly both have proven to be great over and over in various shops.

I agree Matt.

Clearview makes an excellent cyclone. I think it's 5 horsepower. I would imagine the Penn State Industries cyclones would work well also so long as you got one that's big enough. Personally I like Oneida but that's not to say the others dont make a good cyclone.

Get a cyclone thats sized right (or a little bigger), run the ducts in the correct size, limit the elbows and use the right kind of elbows, keep the flex duct to a minimum, seal the ductwork, fittings, blast gates with tape or caulk. Get a Dylos meter to keep an eye on the shop. Have a system that works great.

PHM

[Don Jeansonne]

Guys - thanks for all the dialog. I decided to go with Oneida V series and work on upgrading my ductwork.

[Michael W. Clark]

David,

Cincinnati fan seems to be your favorite. How accessible and affordable are these units to the typical hobbyist on this forum? And if they are looking for a cyclone, how well do those mate to an available cyclone? And wouldn't a fan need to be designed for a specific cyclone, or isn't that all that critical?

If you are mounting it on top of the cyclone, you want a "horizontal mount" configuration. If building from scratch, you would build the outlet flange on the cyclone to mate with the inlet flange on the fan. Otherwise, you may need to make a transition of some sort. The fan rotation is key. You want the fan rotation to follow the cyclone rotation. Other than that, the fan is selected for the system flow and SP requirement.

Mike

[David Kumm]

Ole, My experience is with Cincinnati but Chicago and New York fan are very similar and even the model numbering is close. I have an Oneida stand alone 5 hp blower and it is a well made unit but in my application the impeller would not pull at enough pressure to run at the motors full rating so I bought a used CF RBE 9. If you watch ebay and CL you can find a blower and motor in the 500-700 range so it is a little less than a new Oneida with basically the same motor. If you can run a stand alone blower it is really more about customizing for your needs and getting a commercial grade system for about the same as a new hobby one. Particulary useful if you like the clearvue cyclone but not the blower, or if you can source a Torit, Dustkopp, air sentry or similar used cyclone for 400-600 and then pick whatever filters you want. If you go to the CF tables and copy the PB,PBS,SPB, or RBE tables you will find the cfm for different blade configurations and pick the models that give you what you need in the 8-14" range and start looking. They will be three phase most of the time but a vfd allows you to compensate for your mistakes by adjusting fan speed. I oversize and slow the HZ as most aluminum impellers have an rpm rating that doesn't allow for much additional speed. Total cost including the vfd will be in the $2K range depending on how you do it but gives you a good system. Not for everyone but an option. Dave

[Ryan Brucks]

As a CV owner, I can certainly understand some people wanting steel. Especially after my experience with the CV shipping. I received 2 completely busted cyclone bodies before the 3rd one arrived OK. PTEG is tough... but still not as tough as steel. So took me much longer to get mine setup fully.

as previously said I bet any CFM differences between Oneida and CV would be negligible. If anything, the CV might have slightly better fine dust separation since it has a better optimized cyclone shape (ie, the ramped inlet). But again its probably pretty minor.

Also remember that CV's ship with twice the filter area (2 wynns). So there's a chance you'll get more suck out of the CV before having to clean the filters... who knows.... ymmv

[Jim Andrew]

Would not adding a 2nd filter be a big improvement to any cyclone system? Notice a huge improvement after cleaning the filter on my 2 hp wood sucker.

[Rod Sheridan]

Would not adding a 2nd filter be a big improvement to any cyclone system? Notice a huge improvement after cleaning the filter on my 2 hp wood sucker.

If the motor is sized for less resistance and more HP you're OK, otherwise you will have an overloaded motor...........Rod.

[David Kumm]

If the motor is sized for less resistance and more HP you're OK, otherwise you will have an overloaded motor...........Rod.

If you are running backward inclined impeller you will get more cfm due to less resistance and are unlikely to overamp the motor as most BI blades top out before that happens. A straight blade can easily burn out a motor so they must be monitored if used. Most systems sold in the hobby market will benefit from additional filter area. Filters need to be easily cleaned and be resistant to degradation by the cleaning process. You must also have a decent method to identify when cleaning is necessary or your lungs will be doing it before you get around to the filters. Dave

[marty shultz]

Basing the decision on the manufacturer is probably not valid since, like most companies, they have a tiered product structure (entry level, intermediate, and pro).

I bought an entry level penn state cyclone model, built a stand for it, hooked a short hose up and it and it was HORRIBLE at collecting anything! I sold it before ever attaching it to any equipment. I believe they may make a unit that would meet my needs but it wasn't that one. I bought a Clear View cyclone and I'm happy with it. Looking back, I wish I would have gotten their bigger unit. It is a lot of money but if I couldn't afford a system that worked then I would wear a good quality mask and save my money.

[David Kumm]

Really no need. The Oneida and Grizzly both have proven to be great over and over in various shops.

Define great. There is no data to know how efficiently any cyclone separates and how much the system depends on filters. Granted, a properly sized cyclone does pretty well but without any way to compare we make decisions based on marketing hype to a large degree. More importantly there is no real way for the market to demand improvements and no natural competition among manufacturers to do so. It took competition to get a neutral vane in a cyclone. Regardless of whether you buy into Pentz, his stirring the pot improved the cyclone design for all three companies mentioned here. It wouldn't hurt to stir it some more. Dave

[phil harold]

Define great. There is no data to know how efficiently any cyclone separates and how much the system depends on filters. Granted, a properly sized cyclone does pretty well but without any way to compare we make decisions based on marketing hype to a large degree. More importantly there is no real way for the market to demand improvements and no natural competition among manufacturers to do so. It took competition to get a neutral vane in a cyclone. Regardless of whether you buy into Pentz, his stirring the pot improved the cyclone design for all three companies mentioned here. It wouldn't hurt to stir it some more. Dave

+1 on making decisions based on marketing hype
We need real data

[James White]

Can anyone comment on the different filter media? I currently have a Wyne ? environmental cartridge on a delta 1.5 hp unit. It is a PITA to clean. You have to beat it with a stick and blow compressed air through it. Takes too long and does not get it fully clean. So are any of these units (3hp and above) have washable cartridges? If not would somthing like the Penn state with no agitator? thingy to remove the dust be OK? I have a low budget due to other needs. Tractor needs new motor and we need a log spliter. Therefore the Penn State 3.5 hp unit looks appealing to me with the current sale and additional 10% off. But with no agitator? to clean the cake off. I wonder it this is a significant drawback. If I have to live with my current bag filter/dust pump for another year. It wouldn't be the end of the world. But if I where to develop a wood dust sensitivity in that year. It would be the end of the world for me (just kidding) (I think).

I do have some mild wood dust sensitivity. For example if I rub my eye and intoduce saw dust. It does get mildly inflamed/itchy. Is that normal for most? Or is that a clear indicator of likley developing sensitivity. I hate to give in to paranoia. But it would be devastating for me not to be able to do what I love to do. That being working with wood.

James