cyclone selection-- Onieda, Grizzly, or Penn State

[Don Jeansonne]

Don,

The following is a recent thread about an Oneida system. Has a lot of good ideas in it.

I'd recommend Oneida, I installed mine a couple of years ago and really like it.

Good luck with it.

PHM

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tem-3HP-vs-5HP

PS-Where is Cottonport? I remember the town. Is it somewhere between Alexandria and Toledo Bend Lake? Used to make that trip with my dad all the time. He had a fishing camp on that lake.

Paul
Which Oneida model do you have?
Thanks
Don

[Don Jeansonne]

David
I have to agree with you that comparing their data is fruitless. It would have to be done independently.

This process is driving me a little crazy -- too much data.

I think I have to go with a reputable company at a price I can afford and which makes me feel comfortable. Then try to optimize my exact situation in steps. The Dylos monitor might just be the tool to do that. I will be looking into having the option to discharge outdoors at times when weather permits to reduce the load on the filters.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[Larry Whitlow]

I have no regrets on my 3HP Grizzly. Oneida has (had?) a "review" of the Grizzly on their site comparing to theirs. Grizzly must have used it to make improvements because all their complaints about it were not true on mine. At that time there was a much bigger price differential. Today I might be more tempted to buy the Oneida since its US made but I also wouldn't hesitate to buy the Grizzly again.

My first DC was a Penn State. Never bought from them again.

I am in the same position with Penn State. Very inconsistent quality control.

Oneida has outstanding customer service. People who answer the phone are very knowledgeable. Don't know about Grizzly.

[Van Huskey]

When a buying decision causes so much agony once you have done a fair level of due diligence you know the products are close. Lets assume the cyclones are equal and the impellers are equal... now lets assume you LIFE depended on the motor, one you pick a Baldor or a no name Taiwanese motor? OK its hyperbolic but... Now throw in that one system is built offshore and one is built in the US. For me this makes the decision simple.

Venting sanding dust outside is a very good idea if you find it feasible.

[Paul McGaha]

Paul
Which Oneida model do you have?
Thanks
Don

A 2 HP Super Dust Gorilla. I'm a hobbiest with a shop in my 2 car garage. It's a little under 400 square feet.

Tools connected to the dust collecter are 8" jointer, 15" planer, 16/32 Drum Sander, 3 HP Shaper, 3 HP Unisaw, 10" Miter Saw.

Length of ductwork from collector to furthest tool is about 30 feet.

My Dust Gorilla was sized by Oneida. Looking back, If I had to do it again, I would have gotten at least a 3 HP Dust Gorilla as it was only about $100 more. A 5 HP was only about $300 more. I didnt even think of it because the people at Oneida said the 2 HP Dust Gorilla would cover my shop/tools and then some.

Please find the following thread which has some pictures of the install.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tall&highlight

I also have a Dylos Meter. I participated in the last group buy here on the creek. It is very useful to have. Shows you both the condition of the air in the shop and also helps direct you to which tool if any is a problem dust collection wise.

Be advised the cost of the collector is only about half of the cost of the entire system. The ductwork, fittings, blast gates, hose, really add up.

Good luck with your installation. To me, Having good dust collection makes for a much better shop. Much more fun, and healthy.

PHM

[Matt Meiser]

I am in the same position with Penn State. Very inconsistent quality control.

Oneida has outstanding customer service. People who answer the phone are very knowledgeable. Don't know about Grizzly.

I'm not talking about quality issues, I'm talking about design. It would appear that Grizzly took Oneida's review of an early model as constructive criticism and made a number of improvements.

[Ole Anderson]

David, you seem to be the most knowledgeable regarding this topic, could you comment as to the different types of impellers offered by CV, Grizzly and Oneida as far as design and efficiency? Are they all backwards inclined? I know Oneida touts their aluminum impeller as meeting NFPA standards, while others are steel, riveted or welded I do not know.

[Don Parker]

When it comes to a discussion regarding the design of the dust collector, this is where I think Clear Vue has the better pitch. I'm pretty cynical, and I always question the motives of the folks who try to sell me things. With all of the companies mentioned here other than Clear Vue, the design of the dust collector has been done by the company that is selling dust collectors. They will inherently focus on market driven factors. Think of the tests of dust collectors you've seen at shows or online. They show the dust collector picking up huge piles of chips in no time at all. Not enough attention is paid to the very fine dust, the stuff you can't see, because you can't impress people at woodworking shows by filtering a bunch of stuff nobody can see. In contrast, Clear Vue builds dust collectors designed by a man outside the company who is on a mission to save us all from the dangers of fine wood dust. Some folks think he is extreme in his views, but whether that is true or not, I know he is the voice of that end of the spectrum (the end that is most protective of our health). So, if I buy a dust collector that satisfies his picky standards, then I know I am not wasting my money. Anyway, that's how I see the design issue.

[David Kumm]

It's important to remember there are all sorts of trade offs in the hobby DC area. Most woodworking cyclones have been designed to separate 5-10 micron and larger particles as these are the vast majority of what are created. Even sanding dust from a 240 grit paper generate mainly 2-5 micron sized particles. Most cyclones designed for fine dust or even gas are longer and result in greater pressure drop so you need larger impellers and motors to compensate. In addition, commercial cyclones cost a lot more to manufacture- narrow rectangular inlet, helical fins, etc. Filters are complicated too as marketing talks about HEPA like separation but generally don't talk about pressure drop, how quickly they clog, how easy they are to clean, and how does cleaning affect their life span. We buy overhead ambient cleaners that are barely MERV 10 and complain about MERV 14-15 DC cartridges as not adequate.

Ole, I'm no expert on impeller design at all. I've tested and used an Oneida 15x4.5 BI aluminum blower, a Torit 15x3.5 straight radial and a Cincinnati RBE 9 15.75x6.25 Straight blade. BI and BC- backward curved- impellers are quiet, efficient at low pressure, and if designed properly won't overamp a motor under and CFM. They are the safe bet for the many pipe designs used by hobby guys. A 15" will fall off to 500-700 cfm at 14-15" WG vs a straight blade cfm of 1200-1400. The Straight takes more amps and you can easily burn out a motor. Best to run those on a vfd so you can monitor the amp draw with different gates open and adjust speed to max out the performance.

As to differences between companies, I don't think there is much performance difference but diameter, depth, housing dimensions relative to the impeller, and intake size all affect performance. Steel vs aluminum is another issue. I don't know who is correct here. Oneida says AL is safer, others like steel. AL doesn't spark easily but when it does it is hot. Because I run three phase on a vfd and adjust to max out the FLA motor amp in certain conditions, I'm more concerned with the RPM rating. Most BI or BC fans are AL- at least in the Cincinnati Fan world- and that limits rpm to around 3500. My RBE is really heavy steel and reinforced for material transport and rated at about 4400. Shrouded blades are rated higher but generally aren't used for long stringy shavings. With both types sold and evidently no lawsuits I assume both work fine within the limits of the systems. I use the Straight to pull 7000-8000 fpm through my ducts to serve some big old cast iron machines. My BI fan would not pull the CFM at 63 hz that the Torit would at 60 hz but the Torit fan pulled 2 more amps. I think the Oneida "Smart" is dumb but think companies should offer systems with three phase motors and a VFD and let the buyer spec the fan based on what he needs to accomplish. Dreamland. Dave

[Craig Behnke]

you probably already know this, but searching craigslist may be a price saving option for you. if you're patient, you can find some incredible values, especially if you have several systems you're considering (oneida, griz, penn state). I searched CL for 3-4 weeks and came across several great bargains of 3-5 hp DC systems complete with ductwork, etc. I wound up finding a brand new in box penn state 3.5hp system with tons of ductwork, blast gates, hoses, fittings, clamps, etc for 50% of the retail price. I know not all finds are that discounted, but it's worth a look. (the guy who originally purchased the system passed away before he could install it, sad.)

sometimes used is a great option to get a larger system than you could afford if purchased new.

[Van Huskey]

especially if you have several systems you're considering (oneida, griz, penn state). .

Don't forget auctions and woodweb etc for Torit cyclones...

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

+1 on Grizzly. Has served my needs every time. Although the price today is about $200 more than what I paid for it about 18 months ago.

[Larry Whitlow]

I'm not talking about quality issues, I'm talking about design. It would appear that Grizzly took Oneida's review of an early model as constructive criticism and made a number of improvements.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Phil Maddox]

I think all do a good job. Oneida, in my opinion, is a higher quality unit than the others - especially the motor and impeller.

Yes, I own an Oneida.

Good luck

[David Kumm]

I think all do a good job. Oneida, in my opinion, is a higher quality unit than the others - especially the motor and impeller.

Yes, I own an Oneida.

Good luck

I would agree about the motor. The impeller is a nice cast unit but the downside is it attaches with a double set screw to lock it to the shaft. A taper lock bushing is the preferred way to attach an impeller. Cincinnati and Chicago fan make really nice cast AL backward curved impellers. People with an attic should look at those stand alone units. Dave