Why are (good) espresso makers so expensive? What's inside of one?

[Dan Friedrichs]

It seems like making "perfect" espresso simply involves shooting hot water over freshly-ground, freshly-roasted, high-quality beans. I imagine that water temperature and pressure need to be tightly controlled. So what makes a "fancy" espresso machine worth thousands of dollars? Isn't is just a water heater and small pump?

The engineer in me sees the problem of controlling temperature and pressure as a trivial industrial process control problem. The tinkerer in me wants to try building a fancy espresso machine (thinking lots of shiny copper, quint pressure gauges, etc).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dan....do they use copper or stainless steel?

[Jim Becker]

One of the major differences between the inexpensive espresso machines (which don't last very long if you use them regularly) and those that cost as much or more than a very nice cabinet saw is the boiler system and other parts like the pumps. The high quality machines are build much more like commercial espresso brewers internally...and that makes them last a long time and produce a much more consistent output.

I bought my Andreja Premium (made by Quickmill and sold by Chris's Coffee Service) back in 2005. I had it serviced last year to replace a few sundry parts and seals that were getting past their prime and I expect it will continue to work for me for many, many years to come. While I paid $1400 for it back then, it's paid for itself many times over. (That model currently sells for about $1800) I went through four of the inexpensive "consumer" machines sold in typical stores over a period of four years and when you add up the costs of those, they cost about what I paid for the "real" machine. And as I mentioned, it works like it is a new machine many years after purchase.

[harry hood]

I replaced the bimetallic thermostat on my Silvia with a PID but yeah, the mechanics are pretty much what you'd expect. You're basically paying for the castings and a bit of copper and stainless steel.
If you really want to build your own you should consider a piston style machine. A friend built his out of a cylinder and piston he took from a beloved motorcycle.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I was just thinking copper would look fancy, Ken

[Greg Portland]

It seems like making "perfect" espresso simply involves shooting hot water over freshly-ground, freshly-roasted, high-quality beans. I imagine that water temperature and pressure need to be tightly controlled. So what makes a "fancy" espresso machine worth thousands of dollars? Isn't is just a water heater and small pump?

The engineer in me sees the problem of controlling temperature and pressure as a trivial industrial process control problem. The tinkerer in me wants to try building a fancy espresso machine (thinking lots of shiny copper, quint pressure gauges, etc).

Dan, some other engineers have been thinking along the same lines: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...chine?ref=live

[Mac McQuinn]

Dan,
While the construction of a quality espresso machine requires several different aspects of temperature & pressure control, IMO,the real factor in making a great espresso is the quality of the grinder.
Mac

It seems like making "perfect" espresso simply involves shooting hot water over freshly-ground, freshly-roasted, high-quality beans. I imagine that water temperature and pressure need to be tightly controlled. So what makes a "fancy" espresso machine worth thousands of dollars? Isn't is just a water heater and small pump?

The engineer in me sees the problem of controlling temperature and pressure as a trivial industrial process control problem. The tinkerer in me wants to try building a fancy espresso machine (thinking lots of shiny copper, quint pressure gauges, etc).

[Jerry Thompson]

I drank espesso once and I could play ping-pong with myself.

[Doug Mason]

To get a quality espresso machine (which will last years and is a worthwhile investment), your looking at a minimum of $2k (or at least that's my opinion based on my experience). I would avoid any machine with plastic parts. Like most things, you get what you pay for. But your right - it does seem expensive!

And as stated above, you can make good espresso with a lousy machine and a good grinder; but you can't make good espresso with a great machine and a lousy grinder!

I have a GS/3 (double boiler) and a Compaq grinder - both of which are investments that will last me 15 - 20 years. And don't forget that you might have to filter your water. I'd also look for used machines on CL.

[Don Morris]

I lived in Italy at the "request of the Government" for a number of years. Best foreign tour (beat the hell out of Viet Nam). While there, I bought a Pavoni for about $700.00 which today I would imagine is over $1200.00. It makes really good capuch. But I miss the type of milk they had there which I swear made it easier to foam. It had more fat in it or something. The local barista at the Italian base was a master and used a high octane brand. He would flip a cup from where they were placed above his shoulder doing a complete 360 on the way down to his hand, landing absolutely upright. I watched carefully, and used the same brand (no way would I try the flip, LOML would castrate me if I tried with her Italian cups) but never could master the same taste especially after returning here. Also, never have had the same amount of foam that he achieved with US brands of milk, no matter what type I use. I've had to have it serviced twice since returning in '92. The rubber gasgets wear out. I also have two coffee (for expresso) machines, the type the locals used and taught us how to use, but we don't use them, just the Pavoni.

Ciao amici,

Don M

[Jim Becker]

Don, once you have the right machine, good coffee with a great grind and milk that does what you want it to do, you get into some really small things that make or break the taste in a consistent way, including the exact amount of coffee grounds in your portafilter and the consistency of how you tamp it down. Any deviation with these things can make it seem like the drink is something different than the last. Good baristas are very adept at being precise in these small things, whether they are doing it manually or using an "it slices, it dices" automatic machine.

[Mac McQuinn]

Don,
Since you're focusing on milk, I'm assuming you're into milk based drinks like Mochas Caps and Lattes. You might want to try Organic milk. I've found it taste better, lasts longer due to the UHT process and does't contain growth hormones, antibiotics or GMO's. I use 2% Organic and it froths very nicely into a smooth micro-foam. If you really want to practice your frothing techniques, try doing Soy......
Mac

[Kyle Stiefel]

I bought my Andreja Premium (made by Quickmill and sold by Chris's Coffee Service) back in 2005. I had it serviced last year to replace a few sundry parts and seals that were getting past their prime and I expect it will continue to work for me for many, many years to come. While I paid $1400 for it back then, it's paid for itself many times over. (That model currently sells for about $1800) I went through four of the inexpensive "consumer" machines sold in typical stores over a period of four years and when you add up the costs of those, they cost about what I paid for the "real" machine. And as I mentioned, it works like it is a new machine many years after purchase.

Jim,

I have the same machine although my ownership has been a bit longer. When I moved out east I had it serviced and converted back to pour over vs. direct line. I keep finding myself back to Chris for his Machristay Black Pearl Espresso beans after I try others. What beans do you currently like with what type of drinks?

I lived in Italy at the "request of the Government" for a number of years. Best foreign tour (beat the hell out of Viet Nam). While there, I bought a Pavoni for about $700.00 which today I would imagine is over $1200.00. It makes really good capuch. But I miss the type of milk they had there which I swear made it easier to foam. It had more fat in it or something. The local barista at the Italian base was a master and used a high octane brand. He would flip a cup from where they were placed above his shoulder doing a complete 360 on the way down to his hand, landing absolutely upright. I watched carefully, and used the same brand (no way would I try the flip, LOML would castrate me if I tried with her Italian cups) but never could master the same taste especially after returning here. Also, never have had the same amount of foam that he achieved with US brands of milk, no matter what type I use. I've had to have it serviced twice since returning in '92. The rubber gasgets wear out. I also have two coffee (for expresso) machines, the type the locals used and taught us how to use, but we don't use them, just the Pavoni.

Ciao amici,

Don M

Doc Morris,

Looks like you are still playing in the shop which is great. Since my move out to NJ I have mainly spent my time wrenching or the attempt at wrenching on the 100K and 200K vehicles we are driving to keep them going. I have had a tough time getting inspired for the dust making out here with a small shop and the majority of my tools in storage.

Take care,
Kyle

[Jim Matthews]

I recently purchased an AeroPress. It's deceptive, in it's simplicity.

Unless you need to steam milk, it has all the necessary parts.
It makes an excellent cup with my favorite, Bustelo.

[Mac McQuinn]

Jim,
I've heard nothing but good things about the AeroPress. Should do well for making AuLait/Misto's w/ hot milk also. Let us know how you like it.
Mac

I recently purchased an AeroPress. It's deceptive, in it's simplicity.

Unless you need to steam milk, it has all the necessary parts.
It makes an excellent cup with my favorite, Bustelo.