Upgrade or not? Rod S. is a bad influence on me . . .

[Patrick McCarthy]

Have used my PM 66 for 6-8 years, and have considered getting a SS due to the safety features . . . but have also lusted after a euro slider but generally thought too expensive (5 kids thru college and law/grad school, now into paying for weddings mode), happy enough with the 66 etc. Going to redo kitchen and make some interior doors, so I recently ordered a new PM 2700 shaper with a power feeder (paid for it but not yet delivered) and then started pricing tooling ......... OMG . . . . what an eye-opener.

Several times x12 Rod Sheridan has posted re his Hammer B3 Winner and this morning he had the audacity to post a link to the Felder-Hammer website. Foolishly I clicked on it and now I am wondering if I wouldn't be better selling the PM66 and the 2700 shaper, and instead getting a B3 Winner ., . . . . . . i can rationalize it all day long, such as better dust control, slider is safer, etc . . . . .

Next, Rod is going to get me to buy a BMW motorcycle too . . . . . definately a bad, bad influence on me . . . . and he seems like such a nice guy . . . . for one of those from up north (just kidding Rod, i really find your posts helpful and informative) . . .

Anyone previously find themselves in my situation? A month or two ago I was tempted to buy the mini max cu 300 smart someone was selling, but hesitated . . . . .

any thoughts about whether it makes more sense to go euro or do i just have upgrade-itis???

[David Hawxhurst]

just go euro.

[frank shic]

...or get an exaktor sliding table!

[Mike Ruggeri]

I went from being happy with my unisaw to extremely happy with my Minimax CU300. Once you get used to working on a euro slider, it is hard to ever think of going back to a traditional american table saw.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Well Frank, that is kinda my point: does it make sense to keep adding separate pieces (already added flip-up outfeed table), or should i just regroup now that i understand the WWing process better, and get a saw shaper with the slider designed into it from the start? A full combo machine wouldn't be my first choice, but the saw shaper seems to make sense. . . . and the Hammer tool-porn video makes it seem like a better idea . . .

[frank shic]

hey, if you can swing it financially and get it past your wife (see our previous deviant post on how to do this lol) and it makes you happy, go for it.

[David Kumm]

In the used market the saw shaper is a good deal. The shaper adds about 2K to the value vs about 4-5K for new. There are times when you wish for a regular saw for backup as you don't want to break down the shaper in the middle of a job to cut some pieces. It is also generally easier to mount a feeder on a Saw Shaper than on a combo- depends on the model. A feeder is a pretty necessary option when dealing with big cutters. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

[QUOTE=Patrick McCarthy;1922916]
Several times x12 Rod Sheridan has posted re his Hammer B3 Winner and this morning he had the audacity to post a link to the Felder-Hammer website. Foolishly I clicked on it and now I am wondering if I wouldn't be better selling the PM66 and the 2700 shaper, and instead getting a B3 Winner ., . . . . . . i can rationalize it all day long, such as better dust control, slider is safer, etc . . . . .

Next, Rod is going to get me to buy a BMW motorcycle too . . . . . definately a bad, bad influence on me . . . . and he seems like such a nice guy . . . . for one of those from up north (just kidding Rod, i really find your posts helpful and informative) . . .

QUOTE]

canadian_borg.jpgOur Rally Home.jpg


Photo #1, the "nice guys from up north"

Photo #2, Our bikes in beautiful Vermont in 2008.

Resistance really is futile LOL.................Rod.

[Peter Quinn]

I too have a 66' and several shapers at this point, one with an old school slider that is bulky but effective. If I had the money I'd dump it all in a heart beat for a winner combo saw shaper. I use a few sliders at work and its a great way to go. The slider on my shaper has made some end grain work possible that would otherwise have been very challenging. Switching to a combo would require some changes to the production process. Ideally the saw and shaper would be separate and both have a slider, and there would be plenty of space to use them each effectively. I see the combo as a compromise, but one that may be well worth it in many small shops given the added cost and space the singles would require. I often leave a shaper or two set up throughout a project, and use the third as my float. Even more often I go from saw to shaper in a run and rip sequence for moldings, which would be more challenging on a combo. Sometimes when setting up double sided panels I'll take a test pass, check the fit, cut off the panel tongue, take another test pass, etc. tough to with a combo too. Making back bands I like to shape them then dado out the rabbit on the cabinet saw in one sequence of set ups. But you can change these sorts of methods to accommodate the combo, and having a 70+" slider on a saw shaper would be a great incentive to do so IMO.

[Rick Fisher]

Once you start to dabble in Euro equipment you realize how a machine should be made .. The cost is prohibitive, but after the pain in the wallet passes, you have a truly nice machine ..

I would look at used and look at a 3Ph system .. It will actually cost you less because the used market is beaten up with big inventories..

I have 5 x Euro machines, not including power feeders and there is no comparison .. You start to realize that bang for the buck, the used Euro machines are hard to beat ..

I purchased 3 of my Euro Machines used, and one was a trade show demo. Its no big deal, they are simple machines, but build much heavier and more precise than the Asian imports we call domestic machines today..

You should listen to Rod.. he is wise .. And Canadian.. which is even better.

[Patrick McCarthy]

[QUOTE=You should listen to Rod.. he is wise .. And Canadian.. which is even better.[/QUOTE]


I am already starting to feel the assimilation process beginning . . . .

[Chris Tsutsui]

I see two paths...

1. Upgrade and reap the rewards of owning the things you want in your life. People tend to get more satisfaction from an item they pay a lot for. If an upgrade adds safety, then the upgrade is "insurance" to prevent something awful from happening. On the flip side, some people feel guilt that they spent too much and find out that their purchase didn't make them a better woodworker.

2. Use what you have. (Notice I didn't say "appreciate" what you have because that sort of "thinking" leads to the upgrade bug). If a woodworker is busy with a project, then they will be focused on working, measurements and planning. All of the haunting hindsights they had about a tool are replaced with strategies on how to use that tool to its potential.

Eventually people achieve maximum proficiency in a tool or machine... With that comes a level of boredom which justifies upgrade.

[James Baker SD]

I would look at used and look at a 3Ph system .. It will actually cost you less because the used market is beaten up with big inventories..

You should listen to Rod.. he is wise .. And Canadian.. which is even better.

Rick, I am a hobbyist catagory woodworker, but like nice equipment. Do you recommend 3PH for someone like me and if so, could you add a couple of reasons? My shop is my garage and single phase only residential service.

James

[Ryan Hellmer]

I'd recommend Euro and 3 phase. You can get a good rotary converter kit and supply the idler yourself for well less than $500. And once you get used to the slider (and I imagine the combo) you'd never know how you lived without them. As for the money, start demanding it back from those freeloadin' kids.

Ryan

[Rod Sheridan]

Rick, I am a hobbyist catagory woodworker, but like nice equipment. Do you recommend 3PH for someone like me and if so, could you add a couple of reasons? My shop is my garage and single phase only residential service.

James

Hi James, for hobby use there's no way I'd go 3 phase, and I'm an Electrical Technologist.

If you're going to buy a used machine, there may be good deals on a 3 phase unit, however if you're going to buy new, buy a single phase machine.

Running a converter to run one single phase machine is a waste of money, unless you need variable speed, and then you need a VFD.

The 3 phase machines can be purchased with larger motors, the Hammer machines have a 4 HP motor. I have a power feeder on my saw/shaper and it can handle any task you'll need in a home shop.

Regards, Rod.