Costs for an "elite" education?

[Phil Thien]

Anyone here have experience with paying for an "elite" college education?

My 16-YO high school sophomore has her eyes set on an "elite" private school.

But she is also practical (thank God) and doesn't want to run-up lots of loans.

I was looking at the Harvard site and read this:

MYTH: I can’t afford Harvard.

FACT: Because of Harvard’s unequaled facilities and faculty, the total charge was $36,800 for the academic year 2002-03. However, over 70% of all students receive financial assistance. EVERY STUDENT ADMITTED TO HARVARD WHO IS JUDGED TO BE IN FINANCIAL NEED IS GIVEN ASSISTANCE. Assistance is based solely on financial need, not on superior academic (or other) achievement. Harvard expects students with financial need to earn and borrow a certain amount of money each year and have their parents contribute a set amount (if judged capable of doing so). After that point, grants are awarded, the result rarely being a full scholarship, but ALWAYS a package that permits EVERY admitted student to attend Harvard without unreasonable financial sacrifice, need for a full-time job or excessive borrowing.
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/womswim/r...ing/myths.html

So how much do they expect students to borrow?

To be perfectly honest, I'm a bit turned-off by the lack of specific information from Harvard and others. Very ambiguous, short on specifics.

For example, another Harvard page doesn't mention borrowing at all:

No contribution is expected from parents with incomes under $65,000. Beginning with the class of 2016, those parents with annual incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 are asked to contribute from zero to ten percent of their income. Some families with incomes above $150,000 still qualify for aid. Families at all incomes who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances. Students are also asked to contribute to the cost of their education through term-time and summer work.

http://www.admissions.college.harvar...l_aid/faq.html

Here they don't mention borrowing. It doesn't matter if they don't demand a prince's ransom of the parents, if they expect the kids to borrow in the many tens of thousands.

I was also surprised that Harvard doesn't offer any merit scholarships, period. Are there any elite schools that do?

How much can you negotiate with the schools?

Any good reading on this subject? Advice?

Edit to add: Two things she has expressed an interest in include: (1) Becoming an M.D., (2) Serving in the military. But if she takes a ton of loans to go through medical school, would she be able to make enough income in the military to make payments on the school? How does that work?

[Shawn Pixley]

I am a bit unsure of how to answer this. My general advice is "caveat emptor." My experience is a bit aged as it was my own experience. I come from a poorish family. I ended up going to an "elite" school with a merit scholarship, athletic scholarship and grants. Freshman year was essentially free. Sophmore year they cut the scholarship and grants in half. Junior and senior years this repeated. My parents could not afford this. The university expected me to earn and bank 10-12K$ every summer (this was around thirty years ago). I ended up getting a great education and a huge pile of loans.

My advice is to call and talk to one of the financial counsellors. Get the details up front. I didn't and suffered from this. PM me if you want more detailed feedback.

[Brian Kent]

Good questions, Phil.

The Harvard example - now over $58,900 / yr for tuition, room, board, fees - is one of the best endowed institutions in the nation. Here is the calculator they offer: http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/

If she is interested in the military, the service academies like the Air Force Academy, offer full room, board, and a small stipend. She should get her medical training through the service rather than before the service.

Most other examples will cost much more than the two examples you gave. If she qualifies for these institutions, she could do well. The reason there are no merit scholarships is that already, just to get in, all of the students are the top notch students.

[Phil Thien]

I ended up getting a great education and a huge pile of loans.

That is the kind of story that scares me.

[Phil Thien]

Good questions, Phil.

The Harvard example - now over $52,000 / yr for tuition, room, board, fees - is one of the best endowed institutions in the nation. Here is the calculator they offer: http://npc.fas.harvard.edu/

Yeah, they have enough money that I once heard they don't even need to charge tuition. They or another I-L school had considered eliminating tuition?

If she is interested in the military, the service academies like the Air Force Academy, offer full room, board, and a small stipend. She should get her medical training through the service rather than before the service.

Didn't know that was an option. Do you need to go through one of the service academies for this? She spoke to a Navy recruiter at a conference and he was impressed with not just her academics, but her athleticism.

Is end of sophomore year too early to start talking to them about this? Too late?

Most other examples will cost much more than the two examples you gave. If she qualifies for these institutions, she could do well. The reason there are no merit scholarships is that already, just to get in, all of the students are the top notch students.

Yep, I get that. That Harvard calculator is helpful. I wonder how set in stone that is? By the time you factor in the equity in your house, and modest investments, the cost is $65,000+ for four years.

Me thinks the calculator is really a calculator of how much it would cost (tuition/room/board) to go to a state school (plus/minus), and they pretty much just match that.

At that point, the only value-added is their name/reputation.

And they don't have have a big-10 football team, LOL.

[Steven Green]

I understand Phil, my oldest daughter was accepted at Dartmouth. I talked to the people over there about costs and walked out sick as a dog. We had two other kids and I couldn't justify spending what it would have taken to get her through four years. It was a very difficult choice to make and I spent many hours second guessing myself. She didn't go to Dartmouth but did still wind up in a different Ivy League school and although the costs were high she got a great education. I wish you luck with this I'm glad we are done with it and get to play with the grandkids now.

[Dan Hintz]

Phil,

I went to Purdue for my Masters... paying out of state tuition, the bills rack up quite quickly. I was lucky enough to be far enough along in my career that I could work an engineering job during that time, so I didn't come out with a complete boatload of loans (just the stern). At around $600/credit hour (easily, it's more now and will vary with school... Harvard is likely even worse, particularly considering it's in MA) and a typical load of 30 hours/yr, you're looking at $20k/yr just for class and books. Room and board is another story, too, so I hope she likes roommates... MA ain't cheap for off-campus living, not to mention it can be dangerous if she strays outside the Harvard campus (say she wanted to take a walk to Brookline... you have to pass through a nasty little area to get there), so plan on paying for dorm living.

"Financial assistance" usually amounts to a few $k/yr, unless she's lucky enough to get a (at least partial) scholarship, so don't count on that to help very much. I think the biggest help I ever received was deferred loans from the gov with very low interest rates... not the same thing as cash money to spend immediately towards school with no need to repay.

[Jerome Stanek]

When a school says that most students get assistance it may mean as little as $500 that was what my kids got from the state as everybody in our state is eligible.

[Kevin Nathanson]

For admission to the service academies, she needs to start now with her inquiries. She needs to be appointed in order to be admitted. Another path would be ROTC in order to pay for medical school. The military WILL pay for med school, but of course, there is a service obligation incurred, and the risk of that obligation, whether she finishes successfully or not, i.e. you don't just get to pay them back by writing a check if things don't work out.

You can find out more about admission to the service academies at their web sites, and search on ROTC, NROTC and AFROTC medical school programs for the options there.

[Belinda Barfield]

If she wants to become an M.D. you're looking at the tip of the iceberg for education costs. Med school isn't cheap. I know, I worked two and sometimes three jobs to help put my ex through med school and pay off his student loans after he graduated, and completed his internship and residency.

[Montgomery Scott]

The myth is that anyone needs an education from an elite school to have a rewarding and successful career. State schools can do as well or better. Look at the rankings for medical schools. Our state school, the University of Washington is ranked #1 in the US and is far less expensive than Harvard. http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...-care-rankings

[Phil Thien]

The myth is that anyone needs an education from an elite school to have a rewarding and successful career. State schools can do as well or better. Look at the rankings for medical schools. Our state school, the University of Washington is ranked #1 in the US and is far less expensive than Harvard. http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...-care-rankings

Yep, she hasn't ruled-out state schools. The way she is looking at it, the University of Wisconsin (in Madison) is her benchmark school. She knows the costs, there are no secrets. So if she attends one of these elite schools, it would have to be able to justify any additional costs. She has set the bar pretty high.

I guess I'm surprised at the lack of merit scholarships, though. I guess the only full-ride scholarships these days are for sports? Way back when I was in high school, kids with outstanding grades and SAT/ACT scores got full-ride offers. I don't think that happens any more, though.

[Phil Thien]

If she wants to become an M.D. you're looking at the tip of the iceberg for education costs. Med school isn't cheap. I know, I worked two and sometimes three jobs to help put my ex through med school and pay off his student loans after he graduated, and completed his internship and residency.

Well, the military option looks pretty appealing. The hitch is you really have to decide that is the path you're going to take at a very young age. No second guessing once you've signed on the dotted line.

[John Pratt]

I have also looked into elite schools for my kids to attend, and was physically ill at the prospects of the costs associated. I have seen first hand the ills of coming out of school loaded with student debts. I fall into one of the categories where financial aid would be minimal, but at the same time paying my end would put me into deep debt. Now take those numbers times 4 for my 4 kids that want to attend college and I can feel my stomach start to churn.

But, you also have to ask yourself if the "Elite" education in todays academic enviroment is really any better than a quality state school.

[Phil Thien]

For admission to the service academies, she needs to start now with her inquiries.

Thank you. We're going to discuss this over the next couple of weeks. It does seem like you have to commit to a path at quite a young age. I mean, what if she enters one of the academies and decides (after three years) she wants to be a PhD physicist instead of an M.D.? Does the military freak-out? She would still be willing to serve, obviously. But would they tell her that they won't pay for any additional education beyond the academy?