Continental style spindle gouge - any users with thoughts?

[Pat Scott]

I've been eyeing this tool, it looks like a Continental gouge? It has a shaft instead of tang.

https://carterandsontoolworks.com/co...-spindle-gouge

[John Keeton]

Pete, that certainly appears to be a continental/German gouge. If you use CBN wheels, I would not sharpen it on them as it may well be carbon steel and may load up the CBN.

Pat, the Carter tool does not appear to me to be a continental gouge as the flute profile appears much deeper. Hard to tell much with website pics.

This is an old thread, of course, started by me. I ended up with a Robert Sorby continental gouge and use it often. It takes a little use to get comfortable with it, but it will produce very nice cuts and very useful on vase forms for getting well formed curvatures. At the time, Sorby was the only source I could find, but that may not be the case now.

[Peter Blair]

Ok the part about a catch has me quite nervous, thanks for sharing I guess only time will tell if I ever decide it's worth adding to my tool favourites.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks John I will for sure take your advise and after reading this thread I must say I am a little more than just a bit nervous to try it. Glad to have this wonderful group of turners who so readily share their collective knowledge and experience. Anyone out there who can explain just why this tool would be especially grabby or catchy when turning a vase shape which is what I seem to do mostly these days?

[John K Jordan]

Thanks John I will for sure take your advise and after reading this thread I must say I am a little more than just a bit nervous to try it. Glad to have this wonderful group of turners who so readily share their collective knowledge and experience. Anyone out there who can explain just why this tool would be especially grabby or catchy when turning a vase shape which is what I seem to do mostly these days?

It shouldn't be grabby on end grain work as with a vase shape if the grain orientation is down the axis of the piece. You are essentially cutting side grain the entire time, or cutting endgrain continuously "downhill", a safe maneuver.

However, it can be a problem with face grain where the grain orientation is across the piece so you are cutting across end grain twice on each revolution. People have broken spindle roughing gouges like this when the name "roughing gouge" made it seem perfect for roughing out a bowl. These are universally called "spindle roughing gouges" now to help prevent that.

You can of course get a nice catch on end grain work if you present the tool the wrong way! However, the severity of the catch and forces are nothing like that on face grain turning. You can still ruin the work but are unlikely to ruin your life. As always, sharpen properly and practice, practice, practice on a cylinder before starting the vase.

Pat, the CarterAndSon gouge does have a shallow machined flute somewhat similar to the forged continental spindle gouge profile. It has a tighter radius that those I've used which may effect the way it handles but that's pure speculation - I haven't tried one. It sure is expensive though! And probably heavy. My personal policy is to buy elsewhere but his tools are in fact well made.

JKJ

[Pat Scott]

Pat, the CarterAndSon gouge does have a shallow machined flute somewhat similar to the forged continental spindle gouge profile. It has a tighter radius that those I've used which may effect the way it handles but that's pure speculation - I haven't tried one. It sure is expensive though! And probably heavy. My personal policy is to buy elsewhere but his tools are in fact well made.

JKJ

It's not too bad, $65 without handle. It's advertised as a "Low Profile Spindle Gouge". I was looking at the 3/4" size thinking it would help me make smooth curves on peppermills. They also make a 1/2" version for $55, but it's 1/2" shank diameter which I don't think would produce flowing curves like the 3/4" would. I've debated with regrinding my 3/4" SRG with the wings swept back, but then I wouldn't have an excuse to buy a new tool.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I am trying to figure out what this Continental Gouge is. When i look at the Robert Sorby catalog entry, it looks to me, just like the bowl gouges that came with sets 50 years ago. It was the only bowl gouge we had back in the day.

[John K Jordan]

It's not too bad, $65 without handle. It's advertised as a "Low Profile Spindle Gouge". I was looking at the 3/4" size thinking it would help me make smooth curves on peppermills. They also make a 1/2" version for $55, but it's 1/2" shank diameter which I don't think would produce flowing curves like the 3/4" would. I've debated with regrinding my 3/4" SRG with the wings swept back, but then I wouldn't have an excuse to buy a new tool.

I have the 5/8" Thompson "StLeger" roughing gouge. I don't see a photo on Doug's web site but this is a photo of mine along with the 1" gouge (which he no longer makes because it was too much trouble!)

Handle_adapters_roughing2_IMG_6006.jpg

For small work I don't even put it in a handle but hold the 5/8" round shaft. I like it for roughing and curves. The cross-section is a deep "U" shape. I keep it ground as it came, straight across without sweeping back the wings. This gives the advantage of having two straight cutting edges at the corners which I use just like a skew chisel.

But for most "flowing" curves on peppermill-sized work, I prefer a spindle gouge and/or a spindle detail gouge to get into tight spots, the 1/2" Thompson's for that size of work, 3/8' for smaller diameter pieces.

Have you ever tried the Hunter Hercules tools for your peppermills? I use them a lot on both spindles and face work like platters.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Thanks for the note John. I will for sure heed your advise re the CBN wheels. Incidentally I did run a file on the sides of this tool and discovered that about half the length is hardened.

[John K Jordan]

Pete, that certainly appears to be a continental/German gouge. If you use CBN wheels, I would not sharpen it on them as it may well be carbon steel and may load up the CBN.

CBN actually does quite well sharpening carbon steel and won't load up as long as the steel is hardened. Mild, unhardened steel can be a problem if ground with some force but I still grind it at times with no loading, gently.

Peter, A problem with non HSS carbon steel, of course, is overheating and "bluing" and ruining the hardness of the edge. I treat any unknown hardened tool as non HSS unless it is clearly marked. I suppose it would be easy to load up a CBN wheel with even hardened carbon steel if ground with enough force to heat and destroy the hardness.

Earlier I mentioned the file test to determined if a given tool was hardened, and if so, for how much of the length from the tip. For those not familiar with the file test, the paragraph on testing in this wiki article describes it well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_steel

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

Thanks again John I am amazed at the depth of information you possess and the readiness you have to share. I did thy a file test and it seems to be hardened about half the length of the blade (about 6") I did touch it to a piece I was working on yesterday but even though it feels sharp it would not cut at all. I just may try gently sharpening it on my CBN wheel today. Thanks again!