Boiled Linseed Oil

[Bob Wingard]

I would suggest it is YOU who knows not the difference OR the physical properties of BLO ... IT IS NOT EDIBLE ... BLO and FLAXSEED OIL are SIMILAR, but not one and the same ...

BLO reacts with Oxygen ... it OXIDIZES ... tries to burn - an exothermic process - gives off heat ... BLO seeps into the wood where it sits in a useless glob for decades ... never really drying OR forming any film of which you speak. I have stripped finishes from antiques and set them in the sun to dry out, only to see your wonderful BLO oozing from the pores after a few hours in the warmth. So much for your polymerized film forming properties.

Also ... CATALYST : Chemistry . a substance that causes or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected. Are you actually saying that the Cobalt Driers in BLO remain in their original (carcinogenic) state forever ??? What in the world is it about BLO that causes people to make up such preposterous declarations about it ??? The only factual statement you made in your last post was the part about Oxidation ... IT IGNITES SPONTANEOUSLY ... that's one of it's major drawbacks ... EVERYTHING else in that post is simply factually incorrect.

The ONLY solvents in BLO are those added by the end user ... again, check the MSDS sheet ...

Boiled Linseed Oil 09-Dec-2009
Cobalt driers
CA. Alberta OELs
TWA
0.05 mg/m³
as Co
Cobalt driers
CA. British Columbia OELs
TWA
0.02 mg/m³
as Co
Cobalt driers
CA. Quebec OELs
TWA
0.02 mg/m³
as Co
Cobalt driers
US. ACGIH TLV
TWA
0.02 mg/m³
as Co
Linseed oil (Mist.)
CA. Alberta OELs
TWA
10 mg/m³
Linseed oil (Mist.)
CA. British Columbia OELs
TWA
10 mg/m³
Linseed oil (Respirable mist)
CA. British Columbia OELs
TWA
3 mg/m³
Linseed oil (Mist.)
CA. Ontario OELs
TWA
10 mg/m³
Linseed oil (Mist.)
CA. Quebec OELs
TWA
10 mg/m³
Linseed oil
US. NIOSH Guide
IDLH
-
Linseed oil (Respirable fraction.)
US. OSHA Z-1 PEL
TWA
5 mg/m³
Linseed oil (Total dust.)
US. OSHA Z-1 PEL
TWA
15 mg/m³

Yes ... IT DOES "POP" the grain ... but then, so does any number of things that are all far less dangerous and more predictable.

[Conrad Fiore]

Has anyone ever tried to make BLO saturated rags spontaneously combust as an experiment. I have tried on multiple occasions with no luck. I have tried to make the conditions as optimum as I possibly could and I still couldn't even get a smolder. Now I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, and I always dispose of my oily rags in the proper fashion because I know the potential is there. I just don't live in fear of having the rag ignite in my hand as I'm using it or worry of having a rag on the table for five minutes.
I use BLO to add some character to the grain. I use just the smallest amount and rub it in, making sure to remove any excess on the surface. I then allow the BLO to "dry" and usually seal with a coat of dewaxed shellac before I put on my topcoat, mostly waterborne finishes. This works for me without problems.
My hard maple workbench is finished with a mix of BLO/turps/beeswax, and that has also worked out well for me.

[Sean Hughto]

Just so no one thinks I was suggesting to guzzle the stuff, here's the details of what I was referring to as explained on http://linseedflaxseedoil.com/

The main difference between linseed oil and flaxseed oil is defined by the method of extraction used processing the seed oils. There are two versions of the pressing processes one by using heat and the other by using cold temperatures during the solvent extraction of the seed oils. Heat and treatment with chemicals is used to produce linseed oil. Unprocessed, raw or what is called cold pressed linseed oil, is what traditionally is known as flaxseed oil. Because of the heating process used linseed oil is not safe to be eaten, while flaxseed oil can be consumed and is used as a natural supplement for dieting.

[John Coloccia]

Has anyone ever tried to make BLO saturated rags spontaneously combust as an experiment. I have tried on multiple occasions with no luck. I have tried to make the conditions as optimum as I possibly could and I still couldn't even get a smolder. Now I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, and I always dispose of my oily rags in the proper fashion because I know the potential is there. I just don't live in fear of having the rag ignite in my hand as I'm using it or worry of having a rag on the table for five minutes.
I use BLO to add some character to the grain. I use just the smallest amount and rub it in, making sure to remove any excess on the surface. I then allow the BLO to "dry" and usually seal with a coat of dewaxed shellac before I put on my topcoat, mostly waterborne finishes. This works for me without problems.
My hard maple workbench is finished with a mix of BLO/turps/beeswax, and that has also worked out well for me.

The practical danger is when you have soaked rags sitting in a pile, like you might if you've been doing a large project and you keep tossing your rags in the trash can. It definitely does happen. It doesn't get very warm on it's own, but in a pile the pile traps the heat, and the heat makes the reaction happen faster...and then it spins out of control. It's very similar to a compost heap fire.

I don't worry about them. I spritz them with water and lay them flat on the cement floor to dry. If that's not convenient, I wet them and lay them flat outside. No biggie.

[Sean Hughto]

The ONLY solvents in BLO are those added by the end user ... again, check the MSDS sheet ...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...956#post975956 - Steve admits that BLO has 5% solvents

From Dapwood furniture:
"As counter-intuitive as it seems, boiled linseed oil has not been “boiled” or heated at all but instead has had petroleum-based solvents and metal driers added to it ..."

From Wikipedia:
"Today, most products labeled as "boiled linseed oil" are a combination of raw linseed oil, petroleum-based solvent, and metallic dryers (catalysts to accelerate drying)."

Take a look at this BLO MSDS: "THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS A MAXIMUM OF 5 GRAMS/LITER VOLITILE ORGANIC COMPOUND" - http://www.emedco.info/rtk/common/wcd00025/wcd025c0.htm (at the bottom) I didn't think metals were organic?

[Todd Burch]

OMG people! Let it go!

[Kenneth Speed]

Bob wrote, ""BUT WE READ all of the HAZARD WARNINGS" !!! As Norm always said ... :Be SURE to READ AND UNDERSTAND" ... you seem to be lacking in the UNDERSTAND part."

As somebody already mentioned, most of those material safety data sheets are pure boiler plate. Now I wouldn't recommend soaking a bed sheet in BLO and putting it in a plastic bag and then breathing from the bag or pouring BLO over a piece of furniture and then sleeping in the same room with it. But wiping BLO on something when you have adequate ventilation isn't a big problem, You just have to know how to be careful.. Similarly you have to be careful when you use a table saw or sharp hand tools or paint remover or blade cleaner or ammonia or practically anything that has anything to do with woodworking.

Gee, do you use cooking oil? That's flammable too and you use it right on your stove! Do you use gasoline for your lawn mower? Where do you keep it? Do you put on a mask when you fill your lawn mower with gas? Do you wear a mask when you walk beside a busy street or a highway to protect yourself from the fumes?

I can't believe you're quoting Norm Abrams as a safety expert! I don't watch TV at all any more but I remember seeing Norm instructing people to do so many things in dangerous ways that I quit watching his show in disgust!

The trick, as I said previously, is being smart enough not to swallow the hook!

[Conrad Fiore]

The practical danger is when you have soaked rags sitting in a pile, like you might if you've been doing a large project and you keep tossing your rags in the trash can. It definitely does happen. It doesn't get very warm on it's own, but in a pile the pile traps the heat, and the heat makes the reaction happen faster...and then it spins out of control. It's very similar to a compost heap fire.

I don't worry about them. I spritz them with water and lay them flat on the cement floor to dry. If that's not convenient, I wet them and lay them flat outside. No biggie.

Yes, I understand that, but did you, or anyone else ever TRY to make it combust. I did all that plus put a pile of BLO soaked rags in a metal can in the sun in 100° temps. NOTHING. The only point I'm trying to make is that with the proper care, a person doesn't have to sweat a river that BLO is so hazardous that they shouldn't consider using it in certain applications.

[Bob Wingard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EreqG0_PLQ

http://www.kypost.com/dpp/homepage_s...e1330561641296

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=63523

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYS8Oai2Eb8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdgTlHU1bDs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i7BMdVf7i8

[John Coloccia]

Yes, I understand that, but did you, or anyone else ever TRY to make it combust. I did all that plus put a pile of BLO soaked rags in a metal can in the sun in 100° temps. NOTHING. The only point I'm trying to make is that with the proper care, a person doesn't have to sweat a river that BLO is so hazardous that they shouldn't consider using it in certain applications.

Was the top on the can? I doubt there's many that have been doing this a while that don't know someone that's either had a fire or charred rags/smoke at one point. To answer your question, though, I've never actually tried to do it. I have a can of BLO here. Maybe I'll try it tomorrow just for fun.

I HAVE had a plant spontaneously combust. There are combinations of soil and peat moss that will do that with just the right conditions. I came home to meet a landscaper, of all things, and it was smoking away on my back deck. I got very lucky with that one.

[Andrew Joiner]

I slop it on my shovel & wheelbarrow handles ... I will never allow it in my shop, though.

Too many negative properties and absolutely nothing positive that can't be accomplished in a safer, more sane manner. Tome, BLO is worthless in/on/under anything that I'm ever going to finish.

Bob, I can tell you don't like BLO . What is your favorite wood finish?

[Conrad Fiore]

John- No the lid was certainly not on the can. Although if you want to store oily rags, that is one of the proper methods to avoid hazards.

Bob- I would like to thank you for all that information, although I'm not sure what bearing a fire at A Firestone tire plant had to do with anything. In all of those accounts, the fire did not start for a long time after the rags and such were discarded. So thank you for confirming my assertion that there is no fear of using BLO when proper steps are taken to dispose of the oily rags.

[Bob Wingard]

Bob- I would like to thank you for all that information, although I'm not sure what bearing a fire at A Firestone tire plant had to do with anything. In all of those accounts, the fire did not start for a long time after the rags and such were discarded. So thank you for confirming my assertion that there is no fear of using BLO when proper steps are taken to dispose of the oily rags.

The only "bearing" is simply that you asked for proof of the danger from spontaneous combustion of BLO ... and I provided it for you.

There is absolutely no fear of fire resulting from using BLO ... as long as you are perfect in your usage of it, including handling of the used rags ... just don't ever get distracted or careless.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Has anyone ever tried to make BLO saturated rags spontaneously combust as an experiment.

We did a number of years ago in a woodworking club I was a part off. We wetted cotton rags with BLO and wrung them out well. We then wadded them up and put them in a metal coffee can with a meat thermometer stuck in the middle of the wad. We then charted the increase in temperature and noted when smoke was produced and when flames began.

I don't recall the specifics but it was an hour or so to smoke and 15-20 more minutes to combustion.

[Jim Becker]

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This thread is closed as it has devolved from it's original purpose of seeking information

Jim
SMC Moderator