Cermark on Aluminum - Having Issues

[Mark Sipes]

I have a 25 watt and have never been able to get CerMark 6000 (in a can) to ever stick to anything but stainless... Always thought it was just a power problem

[Dan Hintz]

I have a 25 watt and have never been able to get CerMark 6000 (in a can) to ever stick to anything but stainless... Always thought it was just a power problem

How slow were you going? I would expect you to be in the 5S/100P range, give or take...

[Amanda Shughart]

Wow, talk about having the rug pulled out from under you.

They came and unhooked the machine this morning. As of now I am no longer the operator/user.

Here's hopeing we win the mega millions and I can quit and buy my own laser and just do flashlights.

Thank you all for your help, I really didn't expect this to happen so soon. I've been kept in the dark about the whole thing, mostly.

Mushroom, over & out....

[Mike Null]

Dan

It's not a given that Cermark will work on thin aluminum. I use a lot of Cermark and have even run it at 1000 dpi and high power, low speed and the stuff still rubs off sufficiently that the items are not salable.

[Clyde Baumwell]

My own experience is that CerMark and Thermark DO NOT work on Aluminum...Ferro assured me that Thermark would work. I found out that it does not work on any aluminum and I am $100 poorer!

[Dan Hintz]

Dan

It's not a given that Cermark will work on thin aluminum. I use a lot of Cermark and have even run it at 1000 dpi and high power, low speed and the stuff still rubs off sufficiently that the items are not salable.

You could very well be right on that one... I do mostly SS with Cermark (actually, I use my own mixes these days), and I've only done a few pieces of Al. I didn't have a problem once I dialed it in, but that's not to say it won't be an issue for someone else. If it is a major problem for some, I'm willing to bet the particular alloy is of concern and should be looked at more closely.

[Steve Rozwood]

Clyde, Mike and Mark I believe that getting a mark on Aluminum is going to be machine dependent. The material is designed to physically bond to the surface of metal using the intense heat of the laser, kind of like welding (but not exactly). Since Aluminum acts as a heat sink, meaning it absorbs heat, this makes getting the heat in localized where the bond supposed to occur very difficult. A few tricks we like to use is to heat the metal us slightly using a hair dryer, using the honey comb cutting table to help keep the heat localized, use a reduced spot size lens such as 1.5" and finally slow your laser down as slow as it can go. The last on that list "slow the machine down" is very machine dependent. What I think that's happening is since technology is rapidly changing, laser companies are finding ways to get their machine to run as fast they can, and for good reason too, faster machine means faster output. Unfortunately a faster machine means that you might not be able to build up enough heat to get the CerMark to bond to the metals that act as heat sinks (Aluminum, Brass, Copper Silver). You shouldn't have any problem getting marks on metals such as stainless steels, titanium's, pewter's and such. For instance we have a older 35 watt machine that runs at 44 inches per sec and a newer 60 watt machine one that's much faster (I haven't calculated it yet but I'm guessing around 90 inches per my marks, you'll see...). Our older machine gets good marks at 100% power - 35% speed on stainless and around 3% speed on aluminum. The newer machine at 60 watts is almost the same 100% power - 30-35% speed on stainless and 2-3% speed on aluminum, of course it's still going faster due to the overall writing speed but I think you will start to see the picture I'm painting. This is why we are getting away from giving anyone starting settings but rather we tell people to test their laser limits using a test grid, you know run at 100% power and run varying increments of speed until you can find a good solid bond. For example you can use your colr mapping in your laser driver and do something simple like this;

100p/50s
100p/40s
100p/30s
100p/20s
100p/10s
100p/5s
100p/2s

Let me know if this makes any sense or not.

[Chuck Stone]

I did get it to work on aluminum, but it took a long time and several tests.
I think I ended up at something like .4 speed/100 power on an old 30W tube
(who knows what it really puts out?) It was turning blue when heated.

[Dee Gallo]

I did get it to work on aluminum, but it took a long time and several tests.
I think I ended up at something like .4 speed/100 power on an old 30W tube
(who knows what it really puts out?) It was turning blue when heated.

SHOULD have entered that into the contest, Chuck - I like it better than the winner!

[Chuck Stone]

SHOULD have entered that into the contest, Chuck - I like it better than the winner!

LOL .. .that one did take first. I was surprised.
(almost broke my arm patting myself on the back)
I have to call Ferro and see what I should get. Don't
have enough power for the tape.. but I did finally get
a double action airbrush, so that should help.

[Dee Gallo]

LOL .. .that one did take first. I was surprised.
(almost broke my arm patting myself on the back)
I have to call Ferro and see what I should get. Don't
have enough power for the tape.. but I did finally get
a double action airbrush, so that should help.

Hahaha, just checking to see if that was really you - I can't really see the photo too well on the blog. Congratulations, you deserve it!

[Chuck Stone]

Thanks, Dee ... now I just have to figure out what I need.
I just bought a jar of 6038 a couple of months ago. D'OH!!

[Mike Null]

It may well be the alloy that is the problem with aluminum but I think the problem is more heat dissipation. The aluminum I would mark if I could is 1" x 3" tags which I normally lay on the table about 7 wide by 7 or 8 down. My theory is that by the time the laser makes its pass across this 21" wide area the aluminum has dissipated the heat from the first pass and does not sufficiently heat the piece to create the bond.

This ain't my first rodeo. I have tried all manner of speeds and power and dpi as well as changing my formula. My machine will mark stainless steel without Cermark so it's not a power issue.

At some point you have to make a judgment as to whether marking aluminum with Cermark is profitable. I say it isn't for my application. On the other hand I did jobs totaling about $5000 last using Cermark on stainless and find it to be a most profitable application.

[Clyde Baumwell]

I also have successfully engraved stainless with the Ferro products. But when it comes to aluminum, "fuggedaboutit"! You can't make any money engraving at a speed of .2...at least it is not worth my time

[Amy Shelton]

Wow, talk about having the rug pulled out from under you.

They came and unhooked the machine this morning. As of now I am no longer the operator/user.

....

Mushroom, over & out....

Sorry Amanda, that's a real bummer. Hopefully they will get the laser back up and running, or at least let you know what is going on.
Amy