Dust collector

[Ken Higginbotham]

I'm looking at getting a lower end dust system and am thinking of two options. The first is the $199 harbor frt system and the other is getting a really good rigid shop vac with the trash can / lid set up. So here is one question; the harbor frt collector is 2hp 110v 20a. The $179 shop vac says its 6+ hp peak. What is the real measure of performance and how could one be 2 hp and the other 6hp? Thanks for any insight...

[Van Huskey]

honestly it is apples and oranges. The vac is designed for high static pressure, low CFM, the opposite of a dust collector like the HF. For machines you definately want the harbor freight.

The reality is the shop vac can't produce 6hp except the instant the rotor is locked on the motor. 1 hp = ~750 watts so 6 HP would be 4500 watts (even if the motor was 100% efficient) so at 120v it would be about 37.5 amps!!! The induction motor on the HF DC is rated much more accurately.

[joe chernosky]

Hi Ken,

The shop vac has a Universal motor and although it is rated as 6hp one cannot compare it to the 2hp capacitor start motor (I believe it is a cap start motor) on the HF unit because the hp is measured under very different conditions. The HF motor has considerably more torque while the universal motor operates at a much higher rpm. The 6hp shop vac motor could not "spin" the HF dust collector's impeller for very long without burning up.

Cheers,
Joe

[Bruce Seidner]

But Van, the sticker on the vac has the number 6 printed on a big metallic sticker!

Ken, what do you hope to accomplish with your dust system? There are goals that can be accomplished with a $6 broom and those that require a couple thousand dollars.

What is the problem you are trying to solve?

[Ken Higginbotham]

Thanks for the input - I have a 13" planner, a steel city 3hp table saw and the rigid jointer. I don't do a ton of work but I find myself hesitating to run the jointer or planner because of the mess they make...

[HANK METZ]

As has been stated before on the forum, Shop Vacs have their limitations and are subject to serious misstatement of h.p. (thank you Sears). At best they will hold their own up to a router table's worth of debris but simply lack the volume capacity to handle large and plentiful collection needs like a tablesaw or jointer/ planer. It is also most crucial you have a proper d.c. hooked to your planer as insufficient removal of particulates results in their being reintroduced into the fresh cut surface and marring the smoothness as well as lodging in the rollers thus causing slippage. I find I can get by with a cardboard carton at my jointer's exhaust chute for short runs, but for anything protracted, I do hook it up to my d.c.

- Beachside Hank

[Neil Brooks]

Look around online for a 20% HF coupon. Good for the HF 2HP DC.

IMHO (owner of TWO HF 2HP DC's), there's no comparison. Get the true DC.

Best of luck !

[Van Huskey]

Based on your uses the HF DC is the way to go on a budget. You can do a serch on the unit and find the many ways people have found to improve it.

[Ryan Mooney]

Definitely the HF unit. You'll bury the shop vac in shavings from the planer in no time.

Consider building a Thein separator for it, you can add it for basically $0 out of scrap and salvaged pieces and it makes the whole thing work vastly better. If the budget allows adding a Wynn Environmental 35A is also a big upgrade over the provided bag (better filtration and better airflow).

[Ken Higginbotham]

Ok, HF it is. I'll google the separator and upgraded bag. Thanks! I'll try to do a pic when I get it set up.

[Ken Higginbotham]

Oh, one more question; Looking at other posts it looks like the shorter my hoses and fewer bends (90s and 45s), the better? I can probably rearrange my machines putting them closer together...

[Ken Higginbotham]

There's a jet 2hp in pretty good shape on CL, would this be better than a new HF?

[Myk Rian]

Ok, HF it is. I'll google the separator and upgraded bag. Thanks! I'll try to do a pic when I get it set up.

I use a trash can separator in front of my HF DC. Works great. I also put a 1 mic bag on top, and lined the bottom bag with a very large plastic trash bag.

0517001253.jpg

[Ryan Mooney]

There's a jet 2hp in pretty good shape on CL, would this be better than a new HF?

Its at least comparable and probably slightly better depending on the model/era. From what data I've seen the jets had some variation in impeller size but have been generally been larger than the HF unit and so should "suck" a little more (in the good way). The Jet 1.5HP (1100) is likely closer to the HF in real performance. The pleated filter is still a good upgrade there if it comes with a bag (http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm). Some of the older bag machines had really coarse bags so you get a lot of sift through which kind of ruins the whole point..

I have the HF and with ~10' of 5" flex it just handles my 12" jointer/planer without a lot of room to spare (5" looks to be about the sweet spot for airflow vs volume on this size of DC). I know some people manage to make this size of DC work in a hard piped config, but I've personally decided that trying to push it past that is pretty hard if you have machines that throw much dust (Flex is about 3x the loss of hard pipe, but a 45d elbow is like 4.5' of 5" pipe so only one (wrong - three) full 90d turn and I'm approaching the loss of my whole length of flex if I roll around to get a ~mostly straight shot).

I pretty much rebuilt it and moved the impeller up so it was a straight shot into the bag/filter assembly to reduce loss on that part and then put the Thien on top of a drum underneath (saved space as well). Here is a picture of it half completed, inlet faces straight down and the Thien top hat and drum (not shown here) sit underneath it. The whole thing sits on some roll anywhichway casters which makes it pretty mobile, the downside is you do need space to roll it around your machines (which I think in the end is less space efficient than a larger hard piped system). Turns out that 5" stovepipe fits perfectly over the inlet/outlet on this machine so that got used a fair bit in the build. People have done similar things with the Jet system.

IMG_0545-s.JPG

[Matt McColley]

I wanted a DC and not a DC project, so I purchased this one when it was on sale for $375 over the holidays.

It pulls 12 amp at 220 vac, and that's a "real" 2 HP.

Has 12-3/4" impellor and 1 micon spun bond PE cartridge.

I'm very happy with it.

"peak developed HP" is liars (I mean marketing) speak. The true number is ~ 1/10th what is published.

For the fixed tools you listed, you want to move a lot of air..... you need the CFM of a DC, not a shop vac. Others get buy with trash can cyclones hooked up to their shop vacs, and God bless them. But if you're not moving a lot of air and pushing it though a fine filter, you're not capturing the stuff that can really make you sick.

In the end, these are always cost / benefit decisions.

Lot's of guys out there will tell you that a 2 HP single stage system is totally inadequate.

Some of us are raising families on limited resources and aren't making our paychecks in our basement / garage shops.

Spring for the DC if you can afford it.

Good luck.....