Kitchen Cabinet Question

[Hal Peeler]

What do you cabinet guys use to build your boxes for kitchen cabinets? I've started new ones for our house and have the face frames done (oak) but wondered if you used 1/2" or 3/4" oak plywood for the boxes. A local shop around here glues 1/4" oak onto 1/2" luan. I don't want to use 3/4" oak on the sides that are not exposed but I don't want the inside of the cabinets to look weird either by using different material on each side. I guess by now you've figured out that I haven't done a kitchen before. Now that I look like I have no idea what I'm talking about, thanks for the help.
Hal

[Don Jarvie]

Stained or painted? If painted use birch ply for all since the grain won't be prominate. If stained use 3/4 oak for the outsides and 3/4 birch for the insides. Use a good quality birch so you will keep the chip outs from the cuts to a minimum.

[John Gregory]

I would not use anything less than 3/4" sheet goods for the box, For the back 1/2" would be fine, but 3/4" can make hanging the uppers easier. Cabinet grade ply, Melamine, or pre finished plywood would be my choice. If you want the inside to have wood grain, use prefinished ply. If a white interior is ok then use melamine. The Melamine can be heavy to handle. Remember that kitchen cabinets carry a lot of weight with dishes, pans, etc. You want to make them strong and lasting.

[Richard McComas]

Over the last 30 years I've built 14 kitchens, five of them using melamine. I've tried all kinds of sheet good of different finishes and thickness. My favorite cabinet box material is 3/4 melamine. I use it for the backs also. I don't use borg melamine. I get my melamine from a business that caters to cabinet makers. It a much higher quality than what you get at the borg. It's flat, stable, and equal thickness. My first melamine kitchen was 19 years ago, it's still in service and no failures. It's so much easier to build square boxes with the melamine than it is with todays bowed plywood. My last kicthen I use pre_finished maple plywood at 82 dollars a sheet. It was a pain because the stuff would bow on me.

[Tim Thomas]

I second the recommendation on pre-finished plywood. I'm building a kitchen island with it right now and it is great to work with. I bought 3/4 inch that was finished on just one side. I don't think it is a problem that the wood on the plywood (probably birch) doesn't match what the face frames are. The pre-finished is a nice light, neutral color that would go well with anything. (My face frames and doors are painted poplar) If you have an exposed end on a run of cabinets you can make an oak panel to cover just that end.

[frank shic]

i prefer melamine as well although the 3/4" stuff is REALLY HEAVY if you're working alone. ditto on not using borg melamine - it seems to be a much more inferior grade than the cabinet quality stuff. rich, how are you cutting your melamine sheets so they don't chip out? i'm using a scoring blade attachment on my table saw. if you do use prefinished plywood, set the sides back from the outer edges so you don't run into a problem like richard mentioned when you screw them together at installation time.

[Paul Johnstone]

I guess it primarily depends on what look you are after, what the budget is, and how much time you are willing to spend.
I would recommend using 3/4" oak plywood throughout (since you like oak). I am assuming you are going to stain or clear coat it.

My personal opinion (if finances allow).. don't skimp. You are doing this for your own kitchen, and investing a lot of time.
If you want something generic or cheap looking, you'd be much better off just buying cabinets at a home center or keeping what you have.

The difference in price between 1/2" oak and 3/4" oak is very little.
I don't think it would be worth all the labor to glue 1/4" ply to 1/2" luan.
Even if you had a vaccum press, why spend all that time?

[Sam Murdoch]

In my opinion (and that of very many satisfied customers) the best interior plywood for the average kitchen or bath cabinet is prefinished plywood. I prefer maple. There are different grades of this stuff so if you have a chance you should ask for a sample before you commit. The finish of prefin ply is as good as you can get without you needing to apply it. This saves lots and lots of work and aggravation especially if you don't own a spray booth. And it is very easy to keep the inside looking great for the life of the cabinet. I always use 3/4" for the sides - prefin both sides - and 1/2" for the back - also prefin both sides, and 3/4" for tops, bottoms and shelves. The 2 sided product is more stable and lends itself well to interior partitions and shelves that show 2 faces. The extra cost is far outweighed by the consistency as you build and the ease of achieving a super durable and great looking interior.

If you have glass doors where the inside of the cabinet will show you might then choose to use an unfinished product in that particular cabinet that can be painted or stained to match your exterior.

As you are building face frame cabinets this is a perfect situation to use all prefin maple interiors and then use oak plywood as the exterior for all the places where finished ends will show. Yes, add an oak ply side to the interior side - double up. This eliminates all the potential to mismatch interior panels and shelves etc., while giving your exteriors exactly the look you prefer. Using an 1-1/2" wide face frame allows you to use both 3/4" thick ply layers or use 3/4" on the inside and 1/2" on the exterior with a spacer (or not) depending on if you want to flush the inside of the face frame to the sides.

This could be a very long "how to" post but if you get this far and are interested in more info I'll type more later.

[David Larsen]

I like oak plywood for my cabinet boxes.

This is a test I will pass along: Build a cabinet box out of plywood and build one out of melamine. Now, carry each of them onto the roof of your garage and drop them in the driveway. The results laying in the driveway is why!

3/4 plywood for the bottoms and sides. 1/4 for the back of base and uppers. 1/2 or 3/4 for the back of island cabinets or lazy susan cabinets.

[Mike Cutler]

I'm in the middle of a kitchen remodel myself.
3/4" prefinished maple, both sides is what I'm using. There will be inset doors and drawers of Qsawn and curly cherry. Rails and stiles will be Qsawn Cherry.
I have some additional strength considerations to take into effect. A 300 lb. wall oven will be 36" off the floor, and a 200 lb. Sub Zero 1/2 freezer will also be 36" off the ground. The base cabinets under these two appliances have to be pretty stout.
The counter tops will also be granite, so those bases had to be built stout. There's going to be some weight.
For the uppers, which will be full height, It will be 3/4" sides and a 1/2" back french cleated to the wall. I don't like the visual appearance of a stretcher at the top of the cabinet with screws shot through it into the studs. My uppers will also be deeper than the standard 12", probably 14" deep to the inside of the inset doors. I want more support. for the additional weight.

[Richard McComas]

I like oak plywood for my cabinet boxes.

This is a test I will pass along: Build a cabinet box out of plywood and build one out of melamine. Now, carry each of them onto the roof of your garage and drop them in the driveway. The results laying in the driveway is why!

3/4 plywood for the bottoms and sides. 1/4 for the back of base and uppers. 1/2 or 3/4 for the back of island cabinets or lazy susan cabinets.

I would agree in your test the plywood box would suffer less damage than the melamine box . But you test is flawed. Dropping cabinet from the roof is NOT the normal everyday function for a kitchen cabinet. A Melamie cabinet box screwed to the wall and to each other as it would be in a real kitchen will work as well as your plywood box. In addition if you are finishing the plywood box as opposed to the factory finish on pre-finished there no way you going to get as tough as finish as good quality melamine without a special finishing setup and a fair amount of experience.


My day job is a carpentry maintenance worker for the local school district. We have over 100 schools and support building. In those building we have tens of thousands of commercially made melamine cabinets, mostly frame less. Work orders to repair melamine boxes are far a few between.

Throwing cabinets off a roof is not going to convince me that plywood is vastly superior to melamine when used for kitchen cabinets.

[Richard McComas]

i prefer melamine as well although the 3/4" stuff is REALLY HEAVY if you're working alone. ditto on not using borg melamine - it seems to be a much more inferior grade than the cabinet quality stuff. rich, how are you cutting your melamine sheets so they don't chip out? i'm using a scoring blade attachment on my table saw. if you do use prefinished plywood, set the sides back from the outer edges so you don't run into a problem like richard mentioned when you screw them together at installation time.

Frank, I also have a scoring unit.

[Jeff Monson]

I use 3/4" for the sides, bottoms, tops. 1/2" for the backs. I have used melamine and plywood, I dont have a real preference either way. I have noticed a shift towards prefinished maple ply. in most of the BORG cabinet displays in the last year though.

[Mike Goetzke]

As a hobbyist I recently built new kitchen cabinet boxes out of 3/4" oak ply throughout. I used rabbited joints and they are very stout. As mentioned earlier the 3/4" backs are a dream to install the uppers. Put a level cleat on the wall and rout a dado in the back of the cabinet (before assembled) and it holds the cabinet in place till the fasteners are driven. All this being said my old cabinets had 1/8" backs and 1/2" sides and held up for 20 some years - even though some collapsed as I uninstalled them.

Mike

[David Larsen]

I would agree in your test the plywood box would suffer less damage than the melamine box . But you test is flawed. Dropping cabinet from the roof is NOT the normal everyday function for a kitchen cabinet. A Melamie cabinet box screwed to the wall and to each other as it would be in a real kitchen will work as well as your plywood box. In addition if you are finishing the plywood box as opposed to the factory finish on pre-finished there no way you going to get as tough as finish as good quality melamine without a special finishing setup and a fair amount of experience.


My day job is a carpentry maintenance worker for the local school district. We have over 100 schools and support building. In those building we have tens of thousands of commercially made melamine cabinets, mostly frame less. Work orders to repair melamine boxes are far a few between.

Throwing cabinets off a roof is not going to convince me that plywood is vastly superior to melamine when used for kitchen cabinets.

Just sayin that throwin a cabinet off a roof and keepin it intact is a hellofa good test. If the cabinet holds up, then it earns a place in the kitchens I build. If it cannot hold up, then maybe it belongs in someone elses kitchen. Just like building code is a basic standard, but you can still build better!