Cheryl, I outlined with my Proxxon carver, with a v-gouge. The descaler I modified buy cutting off some off the "needles" leaving four, then I sharpened them to a point, and hold them together, as I stipple. Then I use one of the cut off needles to get into the tight spaces, When I first tried the descaler, it did not leave a good pattern, it was clunky and hard to control, careful off the cut off barbs, they bite! Too answer your question, I carve, then texture