Recommendation on Hammer A3 31 vs. Laguna Platinum 12" Jointer/Planer Combo

[Jeff Finn]

I have a small furniture company and cabinet business. I'm shopping for a nice jointer and planer and i'm settling in on purchasing a Euro style combo machine to save space and give me a wider jointer for facing wide boards. One strong recommendation I've gotten from everyone is get a spiral head. After all my research it's down to a Hammer A3 31 vs. the Laguna 12". Fine Woodworking rated all the machines well.

What have been people's experience with the Hammer machines? Are they worth the money- I had initially thrown them out given they didn't offer a spiral head, but in talking to the factory you can get their 12" with Byrd shelix head for +$800. Bed length is shorter but it does have some nice options to grow the machines capability - although they are all very expensive and quickly drive up the price of the machine. Does anyone have experience with the Laguna jointer/planers? They seem to be selling well but I haven't found many people who own any of the newer re-designed models? Everyone likes to knock that they're made in Taiwan - I personally don't care about that if the quality is there from the design and factory process controls. Right now, the Hammer A3 31 is ~$3800 vs. $2800 for the Laguna - both with spiral head. Extension tables and digital gage push A3-31 up to about $4100. Which would you purchase? Is the spiral head worth the upgrade on the Hammer?

[Van Huskey]

I would get the Byrd head on the Hammer, without a single question. If you do a poll I bet it would finish better than 10 to 1 in favor of the Hammer, especially after the redesign. Laguna products that are made in Europe are mostly great, their entire line of BS regardless of origin are excellent as well. The Taiwan/China line is much more spotty in reputation. If you want a Asian 12" J/P, in other words you want to save money, the Jet and Grizzly both are available with spiral heads and less expensive than the Laguna and both have good reputations.

[Jamie Buxton]

I've had a Hammer A3-31 for ten years, and I've used it a lot. It is a good machine. One of the things I like about it is that it is built by the company that sells it, and the company is likely to be here in another ten years when I need a replacement part. (Okay, I'll admit I'm sensitive about this issue because I can't get a replacement part for a Delta drill press that they are still selling.) If mine disappeared in the middle of the night, I'd order another one the next day.

I'm not impressed with Hammer's extension tables. The connection from the extensions to the main tables flexes, so the combined table isn't flat, and in a jointer that isn't good. However, some sort of mobility solution is a good thing.

I'm also skeptical about the spiral head. If it were free, maybe. But when it costs $800 ... I don't think so.

[Brian Weick]

Is your space limited?



B,

[David Kumm]

If you are convinced you want the JP combo I would expand the search to include MM and particularly a used Felder 7 or 700 series. The better the machine the less a spiral cutterhead is needed. I would be more concerned about how often you will have to lift the tables up and down as that is generally the weak point of those machines. For a jointer to be dependable the tables must return and some machines lose their adjustments if you lock the tables by using a different amount of force on the levers. Get the stoutest machine you can afford regardless of knife type. I'm not trying to change your decision but to remind us that byrd heads are great at negating some of the problems of average machines but should not be a reason to buy a lesser machine. Not that a Hammer is lesser but it is no Felder or higher level MM. I would take a ten year old Felder 7 series any day over either the Hammer or Laguna for small commercial work. Dave

[Jeff Monson]

Jeff, I have the A3-31 also, mine has been a joy to use and own. I have seen both in person and would pick the Hammer over the Laguna any day of the week. I think one of the best selling points with Hammer is their customer service, top notch. The new A3-31 with dual lifting tables is a nice upgrade. I had a byrd head on my old planer, I liked it alot but I have not missed it much since aquiring my Hammer. The cut quality and power of the machine are great. The main thing I miss is the noise reduction. The digital handwheel works REALLY well on this machine also.

[Ruhi Arslan]

You better check your PM Jeff F.

[Cary Falk]

I don't have any experience with either tool. I did contact Laguna a few years ago to discuss a tool purchase. They had no information to send me. When they did get some months later, they sent me some for the wrong tool. They didn't seem like they were trying to sell me something. With that and wide spread reports of bad customer service, I think I would pick anything but Laguna.

[Jeff Duncan]

If you are convinced you want the JP combo I would expand the search to include MM and particularly a used Felder 7 or 700 series. The better the machine the less a spiral cutterhead is needed. I would be more concerned about how often you will have to lift the tables up and down as that is generally the weak point of those machines. For a jointer to be dependable the tables must return and some machines lose their adjustments if you lock the tables by using a different amount of force on the levers. Get the stoutest machine you can afford regardless of knife type. I'm not trying to change your decision but to remind us that byrd heads are great at negating some of the problems of average machines but should not be a reason to buy a lesser machine. Not that a Hammer is lesser but it is no Felder or higher level MM. I would take a ten year old Felder 7 series any day over either the Hammer or Laguna for small commercial work. Dave

Hmmm, yup what David said!

Generally speaking as a professional you want to get things done quicker. If possible it's better to avoid changing setups between jointing and planing. Also agree about the spiral insert heads. I had one in the past and now have better quality straight knife machines and wouldn't trade them for anything. Not sure how much the machine your looking at goes for, but you could likely buy better quality used separates and be off and running.

good luck with whatever you buy,
JeffD

[Jamie Buxton]

The Laguna can have a head like the Byrd Shelix --- carbide rotatable inserts. Replaceable elements like that are a potential issue for the long-term life of the machine. The machine is useless if you need to replace them, but can't. Is Laguna the only source for inserts to fit that jointer? Or do inserts from other sources fit it?

[Van Huskey]

The Laguna can have a head like the Byrd Shelix --- carbide rotatable inserts. Replaceable elements like that are a potential issue for the long-term life of the machine. The machine is useless if you need to replace them, but can't. Is Laguna the only source for inserts to fit that jointer? Or do inserts from other sources fit it?

That is a good point. The carbide cutter bits are used in most all these heads are available from other industrial supply sources but generally aren't priced as well as from the source of the head. This is something to consider however.

[Mike Wilkins]

I would lean toward the Hammer with spiral. I have a machine similar to the Platinum Laguna machine and there is no comparison. Besides, the Hammer has the backing of Felder behind it. Can't go wrong there. One advantage of the Hammer is that the jointer tables flip up together and to the rear. Mine has the infeed and outfeed tables that flip out toward the front, which is sometimes not very convenient. Get the Hammer and smile each time you use it.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have the 10" version of the Laguna J/P machine. From what I understand it's exactly the same as the 12", just scaled down with a 2HP motor.

In a nutshell, I like the machine but I don't love it. My first version of it had alignment problems and the motor fried itself under very normal use. Laguna was cool about it and sent me a brand new machine and took the old one away, with liftgate service, at no cost.

But the motor on the replacement machine still gets really really REALLY hot if I run it for more than a half hour or so. As I said, the 10" machine has a 2HP leeson motor, whereas the 12" has a 3HP motor. So I can't speculate about whether the 12" suffers the same issue.

The fence and cutterhead guard are a bit chintzy, but they do the job.

Chip collection during jointing mode is pretty poor. If I mill a lot of 10" wide stock, I'll end up with a big pile of chips on the planer bed beneath... not a major problem, but kind of annoying. It would probably be more annoying in a professional shop such as yours.

If I could do it all over again, I probably would've saved up a little longer and bought a used 12" jointer (and kept my 13" planer, which worked fine).

[Chris Tsutsui]

If I owned a business I would get separate machines unless I had limited space.

For budget friendly combos I am very pleased with my Hammer A3-31 though I havn't used a Laguna or Grizzly yet and those would be my considerations.

I would first consult your local felder sales rep and ask if they have any used equipment that owners are selling. A used Felder that's 7 years old will still be light years ahead of the Hammer that is brand new. If your business has 3PH power then you should have an even wider range of nice machines to shop for.

As for the non-straight blade cutter... I use straight blades and it does a great job. I can't really see much room for improvement other than making the cutting quieter and having less tearout on highly figured grain.

[jonathan eagle]

Jeff,
I have a hammer bandsaw and the grizzly g0634xp 12" jointer planer. (It has a spiral cutter.)
I don't see much difference in quality between the two. I think both are excellent. It would be best for you if you could see the tools to judge for yourself. It's a little like reading reviews on amazon.com, otherwise. One doesn't know if the reviewer has seen and run the alternative products.
Jonathan