Authorship… Baffled by this…..

[Scott Hackler]

WARNING: Long post of a VERY upset person
Time for me to chime in on this. Keep in mind that I am doing this long post in EXTREME PAIN as I just had my carpal tunnel yesterday (and am not in a very good mood), but I can no longer stay quiet on this as I believe my character has been questioned. I am also posting this reply under the auspice that David is referring to me and one of my turnings. I asked him in a PM but his response was a little cryptic and so I have come to the conclusion that he IS referring to my piece "Delicate Distraction". So under that suspicion, I am "throwing it all on the table". I am also going to be using already posted photos from this forum and off the internet. If anyone has a problem with that, well.......

On or about 11-26-11 David posted a goblet form. The piece was nice, but nothing like his beautiful, "signature Amphora" pieces. Remarks were made and all were of a general pleasing nature. This is not unusual, as David turns some very nice stemmed pieces. No big shocker here.

About 12-14-11, I posted the tiny stemmed cup I titled as "Delicate Distraction". I bought this black ash burl at the SWAT symposium (8-27-11) and turned the cup as soon as I returned home. There is sat with just barely enough burl left over to finish a foot, but I had other projects to do. I have turned many stemmed cups or goblets prior and almost always use the same wood for the foot because I don’t have enough African blackwood for the appropriate foot to match the stem. No big deal, many many turners do this same thing, either for that same reason for just for the looks.

Now, as I was in full blown Christmas ornament mode, I was turning ornament icicles like crazy. Same style I did last year….I did this year. You all seen them, you know what they look like. The icicles are ALL the same shape with the same elements.

Hackler Ornament.jpg
Now to finish that darn LITTLE goblet/cup. What did I turn, but the EXACT same icicle for the stem with just a larger transition at the bottom to mate the foot. And by exact… I MEAN EXACT! You know the ornaments that even David has commented that they are his favorite of all the turnings I do.

compare2.jpg
So surprise to me when after reading David’s thread I initially thought, “Who the heck turned a long stemmed Amphora?” After all THAT turning is, in my mind, his “signature” form. Not the top piece by itself, because the Greek potters, John Hart and Tim had been turning that amphora shape long before David came up with his pieces. Not the long stemmed goblet form…many turners have been doing that for a very long time, not even inverting the stem on a long stem….Cindy Drozda beat us to that too.

drozda.jpg

So…after searching everywhere, I could not find a copied long stemmed Amphora. Then I looked at all David’s recent threads and found his goblet thread and no one else EXCEPT myself had posted and thing remotely similar to that one. So I loaded both up in the photo editor and looked at them side by side and asked myself, “self, what elements did I possibly steal from a “signature” piece from David DeCristoforo?” Foot design….nope, natural edged cup….nope, “he’s not really thinking these stems are the same is he?” Well I guess so.

compare.jpg

Frankly, I don’t see it. I don’t see even an influence in my piece from any of David’s piece. If I borrowed, stole or copied…I would not only admit it BUT apologize. Turners should be able to see the difference between a regular bulbous onion tapering to the 1/16” stem and an “Art Nuevo” stem that has NO bulb and is more straight lined to the smallest point at the foot. There is not even a burl “bead” in my stem. Non-turners wouldn’t know the difference between a hundred different stemmed cups, IMO.

So while I truly and honestly attribute the long stemmed Amphoria form, to you David, you don’t have creative authorship on all inverted stems, natural edged cups/goblets or repeated woods from the cup to the foot. Neither can you lay claim to any of the individual elements of even your “signature” form, just the final assembled piece of art. To do so is disingenuous to all the turners before either of us during our relatively short turning careers. No one can ever take away from you the distinct style you designed, of your Amphora series. They are a beautiful work of art and your recent success in the gallery listings and sales AND accolades, show that clearly. But that cup/goblet is NOT one of those pieces even though the stems are very similar in your goblet and your Amphora series (albeit a big size difference).

What further puzzles me is the fact that you had recently requested wood to turn, because of financial issues or maybe just to “mix it up” (either reason it doesn't really matter). I responded and sent you a 30lb box of wood, with NO desire or request or expectation to be reimbursed for the rather large postage bill. You knew this for days prior to this thread and never mentioned an “issue” with me or my piece. Instead, you besmirched my character to all here on SMC, without mentioning my name. You just left to everyone to “figure out” that you were referring to me.

I can’t help your “thoughts” on my piece or that from the responses here and on WoW…I seemed to have done better (this time) in the audiences mind with my goblet than yours. I can’t control what other people think of either one of our items. But I will not let someone call me out for something I just did NOT do.

So if I own credit to anyone I guess maybe I should send a message to …dare I even have to think about it….Cindy Drozda for all of the elements I used and continue to use. I just turned the same ole thing I have been turning, that’s all. And now, I have to defend myself against charges that you wouldn’t even discuss with ME prior to “going public” and force me to grit my teeth under pain from my surgery YESTERDAY…and type up this (insert major swear word here) rebuttal.

Time for somebody to “man up” and get off your high horse.

I apologize for getting heated, but folks…this was BS from the beginning and if it weren’t for the Percocet I wouldn’t have been able to respond now.

[Cody Colston]

I keep reading that this is "a complicated situation." BS, I say.

There is no one on this forum, NO ONE, whose work has not been influenced by another turner. The uniqueness of turnings, IMHO, lies in the wood, not the form. The form, or something close to it has been done before, I'll guarantee it. The wood is a one-of-a-kind made by a one-of-a-kind creator.

I don't post frequently here but I've been a member of SMC for a long time and I've watched this forum transition from a bunch of good ol' boys and girls just excited to be shaping useful and beautiful pieces on the lathe to a bunch of wannabe artistes. I think I liked it better the old way.

A wise man once said, "There is nothing new under the sun." Y'all might want to keep that in mind while "creating" your forms.

[Terry Gerros]

Amen Scott.

Regards,
Terry

[joel nucifore]

I think Cody said it the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( and maybe Scott I think you should get the I am sorry)

[Dick Wilson]

Well, this thread was painful to read. I suggest that all Creekers sit back, take a breath, and continue to turn the fine work that you all do.

[Jerry Wright]

To quote Confucious, "Artist who claims a signature style is out of ideas."

[John Keeton]

At this point, "All in, All done" seems appropriate. Looks like everyone has had an opportunity to contribute to the thread, and Scott, if his was the piece in question, has had an opportunity to respond and did so in an appropriate fashion.

I am not going to lock the thread at this point, but I also do not want any "piling on". So, if you have some significant thought as to the original issue, please stick to that and don't take sides. That serves no purpose but to be divisive - more of that we don't need.

Thanks!

[Dale Bright]

I think Cody said it the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( and maybe Scott I think you should get the I am sorry)

Joel, I agree with you, Cody nailed it!!!! I also think you are probably right about the "sorry" to Scott.

Like I said in my earlier post, there is a similarity in the goblet forms but only a similarity. Both pieces are very well done.

Dale

[Bill Bulloch]

This tread has left a bitter taste in my mouth. On a web site where the quintessence is sharing of thoughts, ideas, proceedures and techniques is not the place you would expect to find this sort of controversy. I wish it was a thread that I had not opened.

[Mike Cruz]

To all of those who are disgusted by, uncomfortable with, or in any way offended by DD's post, here's the deal...

DD felt that he was wronged. He voiced his opinion. We all do that EVERY day with just about EVERY post. Could he have done this privately first, yes. But he didn't. What he accomplished, if nothing else was to open the eyes of many that if you copy someone's work, or feel like you were inspired, just say so.

Scott finally gave his rebuttle. Scott, I'm glad you did. There are two sides to every coin, and you got your chance to explain. In all fairness to Scott, he didn't feel like he was borrowing (or stealing for that matter) from DD any more than from any other artist. So, that's why he didn't give "props".

Who's right? They both are, and no one! DD felt hurt and voiced his frustration. If he had done it in private only, many eyes wouldn't have been opened to how some people feel about copying their work without so much as a footnote. Scott felt he created something that was different enough to not warrant a footnote.

I, personally, don't feel any different about DD or Scott for what has happened. They are both great turners. Both seem like good guys. I hope no one is writing either one of them off as a whiner or a thief.

Merry Christmas, ya'll...

[David DeCristoforo]

This morning I am feeling quite stupid! And quite chagrined as well. I truly believed the "design" I spoke of was mine. I have been shown otherwise. Obviously the stem design I believed to be of my own creation has actually been done by others long before I even began turning. I can attribute this oversight only to my own failure to thoroughly familiarize myself with existing bodies of work. For this, I apologize.


I attempted to express a frustration (now apparently unjustified) without having it become a personal attack on another. I failed in this as well. For this I also apologize.


I broke one of my own cardinal rules here by allowing my ego to influence my thinking. Again, for this I apologize.


I have obviously caused another a great distress. While this was not my intention, I must apologize directly to Scott Hackler.


Ciao
DD

[Steve Schlumpf]

This thread has now come full circle and it is time for everyone to get back to turning.

Merry Christmas to everyone!