Tell me about the Naniwa Chosera water stones

[Jack Curtis]

Or, as we used to say, inscrutable.

Jack

[Mike Brady]

Again, I'm a sharpening stone dullard, but why all the discussion about expensive 1000 grit stones? If you need 2-3 grits after 1000 why spend big dough on a 1000? A Norton India will get you to a burr in no time and it never needs flattening. To me the only stone that counts is the last one you use. Prior stones are just a matter of how quick can you remove scratches. I see the point of a great 1000 grit stone only if it allows you to use just one stone after it....say 1000 followed by 8000 or 10000.

[Chris Griggs]

Chinese milk vetch abrasive man-made nest plate finish ■ # 355 902 # 6000 # 6000 will be ruined ceramic products.
(Middle / see attached, far right).

That's what google translate spits out, after I asked about baseless 6K ceramics the other day.

(Getting an idea of how difficult it is sometimes???)

What it tells me is that the Jinzo is supposed to be the ceramic 6K. The slightly softer feel is, more than anything else, a difference in batches. I noticed it too, and the difference was very, very small but apparent.

I'm going to confirm this, and if they repeat that the Jinzo is the 6K without a base, then I've gotta go with that.

What's odd is that I've special ordered 6K without bases, and they weren't marked up as Jinzo stones. Missing that stamp on the top.

Stu.

So your saying the Jinzo and ceramic 6k may not actually be different stones. Interesting. That would explain why the first time Arch and I used them side by side we agreed that the most significant difference between the two was the fact that one has a base and the other doesn't. Well either way they both rock!

Again, I'm a sharpening stone dullard, but why all the discussion about expensive 1000 grit stones? If you need 2-3 grits after 1000 why spend big dough on a 1000? A Norton India will get you to a burr in no time and it never needs flattening. To me the only stone that counts is the last one you use. Prior stones are just a matter of how quick can you remove scratches. I see the point of a great 1000 grit stone only if it allows you to use just one stone after it....say 1000 followed by 8000 or 10000.

I used to feel the same way. I can't explain why, but you'd be surprised the difference a good 1k can make in final edge. It may just be that it lets you spend less time on the higher grit stones and makes it easier to get an edge - I don't know. All I know is that when I got a ceramic 1k I was surprised at how much easier it made my sharpening regimen compared to the Norton water stones I had previously used. Also keep in mind that some of these 1k's, while quite a bit more than a an India are under $50 shipped. Will an India stone work? To me there is no question it will. It is a legitimate preference, as long as one makes sure they clean the oil off the blade before moving into finer water stones , but a good 1k ceramic stone is really very nice to have.

I got a Bester 1k this week to celebrate JWW's free shipping, it arrived today. But then I saw Stu's 1k-6k-13k SP package, and started to rue the Bester buy. Now I'm starting to think that the SP 1k could probably be the soft version, which might come in handy here and there. I don't know. Every time I try to overhaul my sharpening regimen I get bored trying to choose from all the good choices, go right back to same old same old when it stops raining.

Jack

Jack, Archie and I played hooky from work and got together in his shop yesterday. In addition to managing to get a little bit of work done on a project of his, we spent some time playing with his stone. Used the Cho 1k, Sig 1k, and Bester 1.2K side by side. My first reaction when I used the Bester was, "Wow, this feels a lot like the Sigma. It's quite a nice stone, and if I didn't immediately use the Sig and the Cho after it I don't think I would be very aware of how it differs from the Sig. The Bester, as has already been said, is harder feeling and it's also less gritty feeling. It also feels like it is cutting slower than then the Sig. It's almost funny to me how DEAD ON Stu's stone comparison is. The Bester is great on its own, but side by side with the Sig, I'd have to say I prefer the Sig. The Cho is very nice, but it does load and needs too much pampering. Now given that the Sig is the one I have and am used to it, makes sense that I would prefer it, but if I ranked the 3 I'd have to say the Sig 1k is #1 for me, the Bester 1.2K is a close second, and the Cho, well it's fantastic on so many levels, but again it's just a bit too finicky so I think I 'd prefer both the Bester and the Sig over it.

[Orlando Gonzalez]

Had and tried Kings, Shapton Pros/GS, Besters, Arashiyama, Naniwa SS, Choseras, Scary Sharp, and Worksharp 3000 (hope I didn't leave something out).

Have settled on the following:

Reshaping: Sigma Power Hard #120, Select II #240, SP Hard #400, Gesshin #400, SP Hard #700.

Honing/Sharpening: SP Hard 1K, 6K, 8K, 13K; Select II 1K, 3K, 6K.

And just for the heck of it when Jupiter aligns with Mars use a Rikka 5K, Soft/Hard/Translucent Arkys, Horse butt and green crayon, auto polish and MDF, and a ~25K+ Japanese natural that I got from Alex Gilmore at Japan Blade.

To soak/not to soak (that is, leaving them in water 24/7 or a 5-10 min soak), high cost/low cost, quick set up/slow set up, ceramic/synthetic/natural/oil/diamonds (plate/paste)/sandpaper, to strop/not to strop, jig/freehand, power/no power = Who cares.

Finding the right medium(s), enjoying the sharpening process, learning something new each time you sharpen, and doing it your way = Priceless.

[Archie England]

Had and tried Kings, Shapton Pros/GS, Besters, Arashiyama, Naniwa SS and Choseras.

Have settled on the following:

Reshaping: Sigma Power Hard #120, Select II #240, SP Hard #400, Gesshin #400, SP Hard #700.

Honing/Sharpening: SP Hard 1K, 6K, 8K, 13K; Select II 1K, 3K, 6K.

And just for the heck of it a Rikka 5K, Soft/Hard/Translucent Arkys, Horse butt and green crayon, and a ~25K+ Japanese natural that I got from Alex Gilmore at Japan Blade.

To soak/not to soak, high cost/low costs, quick set up/slower set up, creamic/synthetic/natural/oil, to strop/not to strop = Who cares.

Finding the right stone(s) for me, enjoying the sharpening process, learning each time I do, and do it my way = Priceless.

+1. Too funny!!

[Jason Coen]

If I were looking for a ceramic 1k, I would probably put it between:
* Shapton pro
* Sigma ceramic
* Chosera
* bester 1k or 1200

-----

The shapton pro 1k is still my favorite of all of those, because of no soak. Sorry stu, it's just one less thing for me to deal with.

-----

Discounting the soak/no-soak differentiation and only using cutting performance and surface finish as a metric, would you still go with the Shapton Pro 1k? I'm generally inclined to favor the Shapton Pro since I've been very pleased with most of the glass stones, but am very curious to see what El Schtoobo has up his sleeve with this new stone. With my luck he'll announce a new and perfect stone the very day my new order arrives.

Pretty much set on the Cho 10k for a new finishing stone.

And thanks for your and everyone else's contributions to this thread. This has been the most informative waterstone thread I've seen.

[Archie England]

To each, our own prefs...

If soaking is not an issue, the speed, cutting, and finish of the Sigma Power ceramic is excellent. Orlando & I chose the Sigma; David and others, the Shapton. IMO, the finish from the Sigma is clearly better: but that's merely my opinion. Wait, go see Stu's sharpening discussion on his blog.

What I do know, Stu's 1000, 6000, 13000 sigma power package is without competition at his price offering. That 13000 sigma stone is rivaled only by much more expensive stones. End grain offers no resistance off the 13000. Of these three stones, the one rivaled by others is the 1k. But in the end, it's cheaper by far and bested only byfar more expensive stones.

BTW, I'm envious of you guys getting to try the Cho 10k; I hear grst things about it. However, I already own a superior stone so there's only the curious factor to address. Enjoy! Don't you just love these quality stones!

[Jack Curtis]

+1. Too funny!!

I second that.

BTW, Orlando, for reshaping Japanese edges, I've always used a Makita horizontal water grinder with 60 and 100 stones. Works a charm and doesn't produce hollows. Just in case you want to add another choice.

Jack

[Jack Curtis]

...Jack, Archie and I played hooky from work and got together in his shop yesterday. In addition to managing to get a little bit of work done on a project of his, we spent some time playing with his stone. Used the Cho 1k, Sig 1k, and Bester 1.2K side by side. My first reaction when I used the Bester was, "Wow, this feels a lot like the Sigma. It's quite a nice stone, and if I didn't immediately use the Sig and the Cho after it I don't think I would be very aware of how it differs from the Sig. The Bester, as has already been said, is harder feeling and it's also less gritty feeling. It also feels like it is cutting slower than then the Sig. It's almost funny to me how DEAD ON Stu's stone comparison is. The Bester is great on its own, but side by side with the Sig, I'd have to say I prefer the Sig. The Cho is very nice, but it does load and needs too much pampering. Now given that the Sig is the one I have and am used to it, makes sense that I would prefer it, but if I ranked the 3 I'd have to say the Sig 1k is #1 for me, the Bester 1.2K is a close second, and the Cho, well it's fantastic on so many levels, but again it's just a bit too finicky so I think I 'd prefer both the Bester and the Sig over it.

Thanks again, Chris. My Bester 1k was only about $50, so I'll keep it, following Orlando's example since it fits with mine more or less (he has more money, or did have ). I finally found Stu's treatise on 1K's, so that must be read; but I think the 1-6-13 is for me. This is more exciting than the Shapton craze, and I was in Harrleson's shop when it started!

Jack

[David Weaver]

Discounting the soak/no-soak differentiation and only using cutting performance and surface finish as a metric, would you still go with the Shapton Pro 1k?

I probably wouldn't care - any of the ones I've mentioned. If I would convince myself the shapton 1000 would last the longest, I would buy it again, I guess.

For practical purposes, all of the brands we've mentioned are the same in the woodworking context, with the SPII being the only stones that are different of the new stones, and the clay binder stones being in a separate group.

If enough time is being spent on any of the 1k stones mentioned for it to be "too long", then the tool that's being sharpened needed to see the grinder a cycle ago.

I would still be just fine off with the king 800 that I started with if it wasn't for the cold water in my shop thing - I didn't at all look forward to dipping the stone into 40 degree water and pulling it back out more than once. If I had to do that a couple of times, it was so cold my hands ached.

[Stuart Tierney]

With my luck he'll announce a new and perfect stone the very day my new order arrives.

Pretty much set on the Cho 10k for a new finishing stone.

And thanks for your and everyone else's contributions to this thread. This has been the most informative waterstone thread I've seen.

That's always a fear on orders I send out, and it's only really happened once. In that case, I took heart that the 'new' stone was much, much better than a previous recommendation (this panned out over 4 weeks or so, I was expecting 4 months) but the old wasn't a dog, so while some folks did end up with an 'old' stone, they still had something pretty danged effective, especially with the 'added extras' thrown in with that stone.


At the present moment in time, there's not going to be any significant improvements to sharpening stones that I can readily identify, unless Sigma Power starts opening their tricks jar.

And that's what they're doing...

However, the old stone isn't half bad and won't be made obsolete overnight. If the old stone was not so hot, then I'd be more worried.

(And it arrives today. Gotta be happy being sent stones from the first batch for evaluation. )

Stu.

(Who's waiting for the truck to arrive...)

[Orlando Gonzalez]

Jack,

I'll see your Makita horizontal water grinder with 60 and 100 stones and raise you the Jet Wet Grinder w/10" 220g stone, WC 8" Slo-speed Grinder with Norton 3X 46g wheels, and a Viel 1" x 42" bellt grinder with Trizact belts. BTW I currently own/use all 3 when appropriate, that is when the planets are aligned and Polaris is in sight.

I considered the Makita but was concerned how long the stones stayed flat. No matter what, that is a fine machine you got there and I wouldn't mind adding it to my arsenal one day.

[Archie England]

Jack,

I'll see your Makita horizontal water grinder with 60 and 100 stones and raise you the Jet Wet Grinder w/10" 220g stone, WC 8" Slo-speed Grinder with Norton 3X 46g wheels, and a Viel 1" x 42" bellt grinder with Trizact belts. BTW I currently own/use all 3 when appropriate, that is when the planets are aligned and Polaris is in sight.

I considered the Makita but was concerned how long the stones stayed flat. No matter what, that is a fine machine you got there and I wouldn't mind adding it to my arsenal one day.

You know that whoever has the most toys, wins!!!!!

Gotta love this forum and folks!!!!

[Jack Curtis]

...I considered the Makita but was concerned how long the stones stayed flat. No matter what, that is a fine machine you got there and I wouldn't mind adding it to my arsenal one day.

At least 10 years. It also redesigns the graphics on all my shop shirts, like an indelible laser.

Jack

[Jack Curtis]

You know that whoever has the most toys, wins!!!!!

Oh, Orlando wins hands down. He's got 3 Tasai dovetails to my 1, to say nothing of that fancy 25k natural, probably cost as much as my house.

Jack