DC and AC in attached shed

[Ryan Lee]

Out here in Afghanistan planning projects for when I get back from deployment. Right now I am without real dust collection. I have a steel dust deputy being powered by a shop vac "6" hp unit. I connect to my 6" jointer, 20" PM planer, and sometimes my Jet 18" bandsaw. I picked up the planer last summer and it really reinforced the need for a real dust collection system. I am pretty much set on the Oneida 3 or 5 hp unit.

I live and work in FL and my shop is a garage that has the door open pretty much all the time so I'm not so worried about replacing the air. My thought is to pour a slab off the side of the house and build a small shed to put the DC and air compressor in. 5' x 8' slab framed with 2x6 walls insulated for sound? I could also mount the DC on a stand so it would not transmit the sound to the walls of the house. Additionally, I like the idea of a 55gal drum vice the 35. If I mount in the garage I will have to put a hole in the ceiling just for the 35gal drum.

Notes: footprint for AC 48"x40"
footprint for DC 27"x53" with filter

Run a sub-panel to power both the compressor and the DC? Is three phase worth the trouble? I if I go with 3 phase the cost of the compressor and DC decrease enough to about pay for a rotary phase converter. Then I could use that to power other three phase machines....welders, metal working lathe.

If any of you have done something similar could you post some pictures?

Comments/Recommendations?

[Ryan Lee]

Shed Build_20100327_0036.jpg
Not the greatest drawing, but you get the idea

[David Kumm]

I would go three phase. Even with a phase perfect I run the DC on a vfd and adjust the HZ to maximize the system. Dave

[Scott T Smith]

From an efficiency standpoint, I do not believe that running the DC and AC off of an RPC would be beneficial. The main reason is that you would have to leave the RPC running the entire time that you "may" need air or dust collection, and it will be burning up electricity even when it is just "idling" waiting for the compressor or DC demand.

Unless you need more than 27CFM of air, it is much better to use single phase for the compressor and DC, and if you pick up any 3-phase machines, then add an RPC at that time.

[Kevin W Johnson]

You will have to provide somewhere for the air to go when the DC is running. If the area that houses to DC can't release this air, it will reduce the suction. That Oneida will be moving lots of air.

[Chris Damm]

Can you even get 3 phase? In most residential areas 3 phase is not available. My buddy changes his commercial shop over to 3 phase and it was expensive. I don't think a small shop would ever recoup the cost. If you build an enclosure for the DC and AC you must allow adequete ventilation for both air pumps. They move a lot of air.

[Ryan Lee]

My thought was to put some louvered vents at the top of each side. If needed I guess I could just build louvered doors.

Has anyone else built this type of kick out shed on the side of the house? Could you provide some pictures? At the top would I just tuck some flashing under the existing siding. If it doesn't end up at the seam for the T-11 how do I get the flashing under the existing siding?

The reasons for the shed are:

1. Floorspace
2. Sound
3. Wiring simplicity, easy to run a subpanel out there. I could consolidate the runs of 220 to each machine. And my 100 Amp box is about maxed out with circuits. I'm to the point that I will have to start using the double(thin) circuit breakers for my 110v circuits.
4. Ease of emptying the drum, close to compost pile

[Ryan Lee]

Can you even get 3 phase? In most residential areas 3 phase is not available. My buddy changes his commercial shop over to 3 phase and it was expensive. I don't think a small shop would ever recoup the cost. If you build an enclosure for the DC and AC you must allow adequete ventilation for both air pumps. They move a lot of air.

My thought was to use a rotary phase converter if I was going to go that route.

[Ryan Lee]

No pics of attached sheds?

[David Kumm]

For three phase you have three choices other than utility supplied, RPC, VFD, or Phase perfect. The PP is the best solution although the most expensive, the RPC can be pretty cheap if you can build your own and have a slave motor. Used ones are available as well. VFDs are great if you have one or two machines that need 3 phase but isn't real handy for an air compressor. If you think your shop will expand or your needs for higher HP will increase, 3 phase is necessary. If you like used industrial machinery for less than hobby grade new the 3 phase will pay for itself. It is a commitment to spend up front though. Read up on the choices. Dave

[Scott T Smith]

No pics of attached sheds?

Ryan, I have an attached shed on one building that presently houses a generator (that previously had an air compressor and dust collection system in it). I'll see if I can snap some pix tomorrow and post them.

[Ryan Lee]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I appreciate your time Scott. Just trying to work some things out in my head.

[Scott T Smith]

Ryan, attached are some pix. The previous owner of my home built a woodshop inside a single car garage. On the back side of the garage he built a simple 4' x 4' x 8' tall addition to house his compressor and dust collection system.

I repurposed the shed to host an LPG generator.

Each side of the shed is based upon the width of a single sheet of plywood. Because his shop was not climate controlled, he vented the DC outside of the shed via a porthole on one side. I expanded the porthole in order to provide more airflow for the generator.

It's pretty simple and works fine. In one of the photo's you can see the port in the garage wall where he ran his original dust collection pipe (4"). Originally the shed sat on it's own foundation; recently I removed that and poured a larger foundation that will allow me to expand the garage. The shed was reinstalled on the new slab as a temporary measure.

Scott


Snap garage.jpg
Gen shed 1.jpg


Gen shed front view.jpg

Gen shed inside.jpg

[Ryan Lee]

Scott, Thank you for taking the time to snap some pics.