Hand-stitched rasps

[Jack Curtis]

Sorry Jack, my english is not so good and I am not sure I understood exactly what you mean.

There's more space on a curved surface, therefore, if one is stitching a curved area as a flat area is stitched, there would be more space between the points. Therefore, allowing the rasped piece to dig in slightly better. However, if the angle is changed, or stitching density is increased, or the points made thicker at the base, no problem.

Jack

PS $16 for shipping? That's a good deal, maybe I'll put in an order in the next couple of weeks.

[Mike Holbrook]

Interesting that Noel's curved rasp curves the opposite direction vs the Gramercy rasp. I also found a Sage Leaf rasp which looks very interesting. The description says "....(two sides mid-round but with different radii) is very popular in the world of violin making and for finishing curves." This sounds like the two sides of the rasp are functional but with varied profiles. I guess this would be helpful in shaping transitions on the curved and rounded handles. I wonder if this might be an even better rasp for handles. I am also curious about the extremely hard surfaces available on these rasps. In my experience with knife, chisel & plane blades there is a trade off between hardness & toughness. The very hard steels tend to be more brittle which translates to them chipping at the edge when used against hard materials. Softer steels I believe can be "tougher" as they tend to bend instead of chipping. So I am wondering about using the Titan or Sapphire steels on very hard woods. Would the harder steels tend to loose teeth? The text with the Titan & Sapphire rasps states that they last much longer than the softer steel. I am just a little confused.

[Noel Liogier]

Interesting that Noel's curved rasp curves the opposite direction vs the Gramercy rasp. I also found a Sage Leaf rasp which looks very interesting. The description says "....(two sides mid-round but with different radii) is very popular in the world of violin making and for finishing curves." This sounds like the two sides of the rasp are functional but with varied profiles. I guess this would be helpful in shaping transitions on the curved and rounded handles. I wonder if this might be an even better rasp for handles. I am also curious about the extremely hard surfaces available on these rasps. In my experience with knife, chisel & plane blades there is a trade off between hardness & toughness. The very hard steels tend to be more brittle which translates to them chipping at the edge when used against hard materials. Softer steels I believe can be "tougher" as they tend to bend instead of chipping. So I am wondering about using the Titan or Sapphire steels on very hard woods. Would the harder steels tend to loose teeth? The text with the Titan & Sapphire rasps states that they last much longer than the softer steel. I am just a little confused.

I just sent a couple of Titan rasps to a quite famous Australian plane maker called HNT Gordon for a review. He is working with some australian wood species that are known to be amongst the hardest existing. Let's wait for the verdict !

[Noel Liogier]

Liogier Rasps website cart has a place for a discount code.. Don't we have some members here who are able to dig those codes up .. ?

lol

Hi Rick,

Don't waste your time looking for it.
Here they are :

Star5 : 5% discount for an order of 3 pieces
Star10 : 10% for 6 pcs
Star15 : 15% for 10 pcs

[Rick Fisher]

Thanks Noel..

[Mike Holbrook]

Noel, I do not mean to question what the site says about those products. I just do not understand how these particular tools perform, apparently quite differently, than basic principals I had come to rely on regarding metal hardness/toughness. Certainly I am no expert on this subject. I guess my question is whether or not there are trade offs with these harder steels that I should take into consideration before ordering a file for working hard hardwoods? For instance, is there a greater risk of chipping off "teeth" with the harder steels vs the softer steel? Certainly a rasp does not undergo the abuse of say a jack hammer's blade, and since I doubt these tools are made to be resharpened maybe hardness is much more important than "toughness"? Maybe the loss of a few very small "teeth" among many is much less important in the long run than how well all the rest of those teeth wear away hard woods without getting dull? Certainly in the case of Japanese saw teeth we run into a similar situation. The teeth on some of these production model saws are hardened with a process that makes them very hard but they are not made to be resharpened. I like the Japanese saw blades that are designed this way and have no problem replacing blades vs sharpening them. I did break the tip & one or two teeth off one blade which had little effect on the saws performance. I used it that way for years before I got around to replacing the blade recently. Western saws I think are typically softer steel designed to be resharpened regularly. I think the softer steel also makes it possible to set teeth without risk of breaking them.

So in this context I am wondering whether each of the three offered steels has particular conditions in which it may perform better or whether I simply have to consider whether to pay more for a more expensive steel that will simply last longer?

I am also wondering about that Sage Leaf file vs tool handles with curves and hollowed out areas. I am working on plane bodies, totes, saw handles, tool handles, bow saw bodies...and looking for a better tool than a simple flat or rounded float, especially for getting into the tight curvy places.

I look forward to hearing Gordon's opinions on these rasps, but will probably order something to try before that information becomes available.

[Rick Fisher]

I have read that you can sharpen wood rasps by dipping them in Muriatic Acid, although I have never tried it .. I think I read it on a Ferrier website, they made a tube out of PVC pipe with a cap on the bottom and let the metal part of the rasp soak in Muriatic for a few hours. I have also heard there are companies that sharpen them.

With that in mind, buying a really good one makes more sense.

[Mike Holbrook]

Rick, I wonder if "sharpening" in a more conventional sense is even part of the design of these tools. In the video it looks like the teeth are raised by hand with a small chisel like tool before the metal is hardened. At least in the video, I do not see that those small teeth are sharpened, unless there is some chemical process, I don't even know how you could sharpen such small teeth. Once the metal is hardened, especially to some of the hardnesses these tools are apparently taken to, I am thinking a chemical process like you mention might be the only alternative. Again this sort of reminds me of the design of some Japanese saw teeth. On the other hand I understand that the more expensive Japanese saws fall back to softer metal that can be resharpened with more conventional files or stones where in the case of these rasps the less expensive tools appear to be softer steel and the better/more expensive tools are the harder steel. Interesting reversal of steel & hardness designs for tolls functioning in differing ways I imagine.

[Rick Fisher]

Mike, I have a few Auriou rasps and I cannot see them going dull in the near future.. I assume the Liogier would be equal in quality.

Consider them like better quality table saw blades, they cost $100 and need to be sharpened after lots of use.

Without actually having had one go dull, I have to assume they go rounded on the ends ? If they where sandpaper, they would fracture and resharpen themselves.. Not sure what happens with a rasp. I love the idea of being able to order whatever length and grit I choose..

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have also heard there are companies that sharpen them.

Boggs Tool near LA provides this service [boggstool dot com]. I haven't yet dulled a rasp, but I have bought from them and have nothing but high marks to report, and have read very good reports on them from others. When the day comes, I will send mine to them for sharpening.

[Jack Curtis]

...On the other hand I understand that the more expensive Japanese saws fall back to softer metal that can be resharpened with more conventional files or stones where in the case of these rasps the less expensive tools appear to be softer steel and the better/more expensive tools are the harder steel. Interesting reversal of steel & hardness designs for tolls functioning in differing ways I imagine.

Mike, in the case of Japanese saws, the differences are due to machine made vs hand made. The machines can shape, sharpen, and harden. The hands can shape and sharpen, but not such hardened steels. Also, the hands can shape very sophisticated forms with all sorts of tapering and the like; but again, they couldn't do that with highly hardened steels.

Jack

[Noel Liogier]

I have read that you can sharpen wood rasps by dipping them in Muriatic Acid, although I have never tried it ..

I have big doubts on acid being able to sharpen a rasp. According to me the acid can only clean the rasp, which makes it feel sharper. But if you let it too long in the acid it could also dull the rasp (by "eating" the teeth that are the part with most surface and less material). So the better solution is to clean your rasps often enough with a brush so you do not need to do it once in a while with acid.

[Noel Liogier]

Noel, I do not mean to question what the site says about those products. I just do not understand how these particular tools perform, apparently quite differently, than basic principals I had come to rely on regarding metal hardness/toughness. Certainly I am no expert on this subject. I guess my question is whether or not there are trade offs with these harder steels that I should take into consideration before ordering a file for working hard hardwoods? For instance, is there a greater risk of chipping off "teeth" with the harder steels vs the softer steel? Certainly a rasp does not undergo the abuse of say a jack hammer's blade, and since I doubt these tools are made to be resharpened maybe hardness is much more important than "toughness"? Maybe the loss of a few very small "teeth" among many is much less important in the long run than how well all the rest of those teeth wear away hard woods without getting dull? Certainly in the case of Japanese saw teeth we run into a similar situation. The teeth on some of these production model saws are hardened with a process that makes them very hard but they are not made to be resharpened. I like the Japanese saw blades that are designed this way and have no problem replacing blades vs sharpening them. I did break the tip & one or two teeth off one blade which had little effect on the saws performance. I used it that way for years before I got around to replacing the blade recently. Western saws I think are typically softer steel designed to be resharpened regularly. I think the softer steel also makes it possible to set teeth without risk of breaking them.

So in this context I am wondering whether each of the three offered steels has particular conditions in which it may perform better or whether I simply have to consider whether to pay more for a more expensive steel that will simply last longer?

I am also wondering about that Sage Leaf file vs tool handles with curves and hollowed out areas. I am working on plane bodies, totes, saw handles, tool handles, bow saw bodies...and looking for a better tool than a simple flat or rounded float, especially for getting into the tight curvy places.

I look forward to hearing Gordon's opinions on these rasps, but will probably order something to try before that information becomes available.

Hi Mike,

Maybe my explanations have been a bit confusing : Traditional, Titan and Sapphire ranges are all made out of the same steel. Titan and Sapphire rasps have an extra operation, two different special coatings that improves some of their specifications.

As regards the model, my "curved rasps" are convex, but I can easily do a concave rasp for you. I have done this already for others saw handles makers or tool handles (with hollow part) makers. The price would be the same as a curved (convex) rasp. An other (cheaper) solution is using 10" or 12" rifflers, that according to me, offers a greater variety of shapes.

[Jack Curtis]

So, Noel, what do you do with dull rasps?

Jack

[Noel Liogier]

I scrap it and buy a new one, but a good one this time.

More seriously, it is not that easy, unless you are a very heavy user, to dull a high quality rasps, provided you take good care of it (by using it, cleaning it and storing it correctly).

Most of the people I know, even professional users, use the same rasps for years and years, without feeling the necessity to replace it. And those would finally achieve to dull it usually don't mind to buy a new one after some many years of good services.