When did we "collectively" agree?Originally Posted by Greg Peterson
Did "we" have a choice?
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When did we "collectively" agree?
Did "we" have a choice?
Contributor
Article One of the constitution. The currency is not the Reserve's though. The currency is minted and controlled by the US Department of Treasury. I guess the agreement is when we turn 18 and decide not to move? Anyhow, for better or worse that's just how we're structured at the moment and why we're allowed to print a national currency that everyone accepts.
Wow...this has drifted way off topic and is flirting with topics we shouldn't flirt with. On the other hand, for the number of replies and controversial topic, it's probably one of the most civil epic threads in a while....unless you count that Powermatic Restoration one that's kicking around with 30,000+ views. LOL. There's always a bigger dog, isn't there?
Last edited by John Coloccia; 10-20-2011 at 12:34 PM.
Member
Article 1 of the constitution gives the power to "coin money and regulate the value thereof".
Congress has the power to coin gold and silver and set the amount of gold or silver that constitutes a dollar.
The value of a dollar should be like any other weight or measure, a fixed definition that is the standard.
In the case of a dollar, congress set the definition (regulated the value) as 371.25 grains of fine silver minted into a coin, this was what was intended by the constitution.
This value set by the Coinage Act of 1792 and has never been changed by legislation.
We, as a people never had a choice about using Federal Reserve Notes.
Good reading on this is Edwin Vieira's book "Pieces of Eight: The Monetary Powers and Disabilities of the United States Constitution", or WHAT HAS GOVERNMENT DONE. TO OUR MONEY? by MURRAY N. ROTHBARD.
We have NO lawful money in circulation today, just "legal tender", which loses value with every new note that is created.
The federal reserve notes are printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, but is ordered and paid for by the federal reserve, which can expand the money supply without the approval or control of the Treasury.
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Barry Stratton's right, no guard who knows ?
Me for one ! Had a accident, It is user's Responsibility, mine alone
X ray 02.jpg
Last edited by marvin gordon; 10-20-2011 at 1:11 PM.
Contributor
I'd like to discuss this with you, Dave, so I've sent you a PM to take it offline.
Member
John, I replied to the PM but I don't see it in my sent items.
Dave
Contributor
On what basis do you arrive at this conclusion? I just purchased a SawStop and find it to be an extremely well built, beautifully engineered piece of machinery. Their customer service is the gold standard, based on my experience. Costwise, they are not that much more expensive than the equivalent Powermatic or Delta, yet appear to be vastly superior without even taking into consideration their unique safety features. Frankly Fred, based on my direct experience with the people at SawStop, I don't think the price of their saws will increase if and when safety standards are mandated. Again, what is the basis of your stating that: 1) the prices of machinery will increase more than the direct cost of the safety features, and 2) where did the figure of $1,000.00 come from? Since the price differential between Powermatic, Delta, and SawStop is well under $1,000.00, and SawStop is at the very least as well made as the other two, your figures don't add up.
Member
Well, in a quick look between a Powermatic 64A, and the SS contractors saw, the difference is $914.95. Might be able to eek a small savings on the SS if you can find it from a non-tax collecting vendor, but your likely to pay more in shipping. As the example shown below comes from Woodcraft and shipping is $20.
Looks comparable as they get, the SS is 1.75HP, the powermatic is 1.50HP, but the SS has stamped steel wings, and the powermatic are cast iron. Both have extension tables, seemingly camparable fences....
While the amount of price increases on the other machines when/if such safety devices are added to those machine remains to be seen, currently the difference is is more than just a couple beans.
http://www.amazon.com/Powermatic-179...ata/B00005OQM6
http://www.amazon.com/SawStop-Contra...9158034&sr=8-8
Member
I do not know why their CS is so expensive, but comparing the PM2000 to the SS PCS there is not a $1,000 difference. Given the features, the units are competitively priced.
Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.
Member
The Professional Cabinet Saw isn't a good comparison to the Powermatic 2000, it is considerable lighter and "value engineered" compared to the Industrial Cabinet Saw, which is close to the Powermatic or a Delta Unisaw. Compared to those two, the SawStop costs quite a bit more when you factor in shipping and a fence system.
Bob Lang
Member
I'm not disputing your observations as you seem to have more contact with both saws than I have. I am assuming the cast iron base of the PM2000 adds a great deal of weight to the unit.
To be clear, I was comparing the 3 HP PCS and not the 1.75 HP PCS.
I have not read any comments or watched any videos where anyone had anything but positive things to say about the construction of the saw itself. Your observations are the first I have seen where SS was described as value engineered. I will have to take a closer look at it next time I am at the store. The local Rocklers has a Laguna, Uni and SS side by side.
It's all a moot point for now as I am years away from upgrading.
Last edited by Greg Peterson; 10-21-2011 at 10:05 PM.
Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.
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