Recommendations for good starter set of carving Tools?

[Mike Allen1010]

I am a fairly accomplished hand tool woodworker with all the sharpening gear/stones etc. for straight edge chisels and planes.

I would like to attempt my first piece with carvings that would include Ball and claw feet and the shell about 4 inches wide and 3 inches tall.

One of the things that stopped me from trying any carvings so far is not knowing what tools I need from the incredibly broad array of different size, sweep and configuration carving tools.

1) I would really appreciate any suggestions/recommendations for the basic kit of carving gouges, chisels, V. tools etc. I would need for these two carving projects. Does anyone offer a "set" of carving tools I could use to get started, or do I need to buy all the tools individually?

2) Also any suggestions of the brands/style of tools I should particularly look at? I'm really just a furniture maker and then interested in carving the basic elements of some of the different period Furniture styles and would be going to willing to build my carving kit over time.

3) Would buying vintage carving tools be a good way to go to save some $, or in terms of setup time and steel quality is it better to just bite the bullet and buy new? What should I expect to spend roughly?

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate any help/suggestions anyone can offer.

All the best, Mike

[Brian Kent]

I'm not a carver, Mike, but I have a meeting in Carlsbad, so consider yourself waved at.

Brian

[Mike Henderson]

I am a fairly accomplished hand tool woodworker with all the sharpening gear/stones etc. for straight edge chisels and planes.

I would like to attempt my first piece with carvings that would include Ball and claw feet and the shell about 4 inches wide and 3 inches tall.

One of the things that stopped me from trying any carvings so far is not knowing what tools I need from the incredibly broad array of different size, sweep and configuration carving tools.

1) I would really appreciate any suggestions/recommendations for the basic kit of carving gouges, chisels, V. tools etc. I would need for these two carving projects. Does anyone offer a "set" of carving tools I could use to get started, or do I need to buy all the tools individually?

2) Also any suggestions of the brands/style of tools I should particularly look at? I'm really just a furniture maker and then interested in carving the basic elements of some of the different period Furniture styles and would be going to willing to build my carving kit over time.

3) Would buying vintage carving tools be a good way to go to save some $, or in terms of setup time and steel quality is it better to just bite the bullet and buy new? What should I expect to spend roughly?

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate any help/suggestions anyone can offer.

All the best, Mike

Learning carving by starting with a ball and claw foot and a shell is ambitious. The problem is that your finished project may look like you were learning as you went along. If you want to do carving at that level, it would be best to start with some easier projects and see if you have the talent for it first. And getting some hands on tutoring will help a great deal. Look at the tutorials listed in the sticky at the top of this forum and try some of those. If you can carve the complex shell (tutorial) you'll know you probably have the talent to do what you want to do

But beyond that, it's extremely hard to give you a good recommendation for a set of tools. I haven't done a ball and claw foot in a while and don't remember what tools I used. I remember there was one wide gouge, maybe a #5/30 (Swiss system), that was an excellent fit to the ball and allowed you to carve it with just the right curvature. If you do some searching for articles on carving a ball and claw foot they'll probably give you some idea of the tools they used.

One tool you're sure to use is a #12/6 (in the Swiss system) V-tool. I also use narrow tools, such as a #2/5 and a #3/5 quite a bit.

Brands: Any modern brand of carving tools are good. I use primarily Pfeil (Swiss Made) but I also have tools made by Stubi, Henry Taylor, Ashley Iles, and probably others.

I don't think vintage carving tools are a good way to go. The problem is that you need consistency across your tools and especially with older tools, different makers had different curves for the sweeps. I would highly recommend that you choose modern tools and primarily stick to one maker. Try to get your hands on a few brands and choose the maker whose tools feel the best to you. It really helps if those tools are available locally.

There's a lot to learn when beginning to carve. You need to know what those numbers mean on a carving gouge. And there's two systems for those numbers, the Swiss System and the Sheffield System. You need to learn how to sharpen because if you can't sharpen, you can't carve. And it just goes on. There's too much to try to put into a posting like this.

Good luck!

Mike

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks Mike -- I should've thought to start with the tutorials -- I appreciate the suggestions and the tutorials you posted.

[David Keller NC]

Mike - Mike's advice is good. Vintage carving tools are nice things to have, but I would echo his advice and suggest that you don't want to start with them. More so than anything else in your handtool arsenal, the bevel shape, consistency & sharpness of a carving tool matters, and antiques are often improperly shaped and honed. Unless you are very familiar with what they should look like and a quite good at free-hand grinding, you may have difficulty. And adding difficulty when learning to carve is not a good thing.

If you want to carve a B&C, and don't have access to an instructor that knows what he/she is doing near you, then I would strongly suggest that you buy a video. Specifically, Phil Lowe's "Carve a Ball and Claw Foot". It is now nearly 30 years old, but it is still the best instructional video on this particular 18th century furniture element by far. While static pictures in a book or net tutorial are useful, it's extremely hard to translate those pictures into the 3-D shape of the finished product, or the 3-D shape of the intermediate cuts. This is one area of woodworking where "live" instruction matters.

As to tools, don't buy a set (from any manufacturer). Almost all of these sets include flat chisels that you will never use unless you intend to do traditional letter-carving. And the discount for buying a set isn't enough to justify the tools you won't need.

For a ball and claw foot, I would suggest the following:

A coarse cabinet-maker's rasp (a cheap 'n crappy Nicholson #49 will work just fine. Auriou Grain 8 would be my suggestion if you want a higher-quality tools)

A spokeshave - while not absolutely necessary, this tool will help you avoid sandpaper to smooth out the rough rasp marks. Anytime I can avoid sandpaper, I do - sanding sucks.

A 16mm wide #3, Swiss (pfiel) system - this tool is nearly a perfect fit to the ball on a B&C size typical of colonial American case and chair furniture.
A 10mm wide #7 - this tool cuts the radius you'll need for the "toes" on a B&C
A V-tool - I don't specify size or sweep here because almost anything will do as long as it's not too tiny or too huge. Typically, I get the most use out of a 60 degree v-tool, but 90 degree and 45 degree tools will also work.
A 12mm wide #5 front-bent gouge - this tool is very helpful in smoothing the transition between the ankle and the top of the foot.
A 12mm wide #5 - this tool, while not specifically used anywhere, is helpful as a general-purpose, "I didn't see that coming" fix-all
A 12mm wide #2 - again, no specific place it's used, but it's extremely helpful to have a "flat gouge" to take tool marks off of gently curving surfaces.

This basic tool set will allow you to carve a heck of a lot of antique furniture elements. For shells specifically, I'd add a 14mm #8 to shape the concave flutes.

With all of these tools, the width could vary +/- 2mm and it won't cause you problems if the woodworking store is out of the ones specified. If you're buying British sweep system tools (sometimes called "London Pattern"), subtract 1 from the gouge sweeps noted above. For example, a #5 London pattern tool is about the same as a #6 Swiss pattern tool.

As to brands, most carving tools made today have excellent steel and are therefore excellent tools. Some of the best are made by Ashley Isles, but Pfiels are very, very nice as well. Stubai tools are also uniformly excellent. About the only ones that I'd recommend you stay away from are Henry Taylor carving tools - the steel is OK, but the handles aren't. This would vary from individual to individual, but to me they're extremely uncomfortable, and one shouldn't have to re-handle a new tool.

One other note - Pfiels come razor-sharp and need no additional honing or stropping to be fully functional. Ashley Isles has recently changed to providing their tools razor-sharp. This isn't traditional - historically tools were provided with the bevels shaped, but sharpening was up to the individual craftsman. If you go back to the 19th century, carving tools weren't sold with handles - one made their own to fit their hand.

Other brands of carving tools are supplied in various states of readiness. Typically, Stubais need a light stropping and/or honing. I don't have many of these, but the Two Cherries I bought a few years ago definitely needed honing on a stone to be useful.

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks a lot David, your suggestions about an initial tools setup for a beginning carver who has a couple specific projects in mind, are exactly what I'm looking for!

I particularly appreciate the list of tools and their related function in carving the B&C foot. I have an old fine woodworking article by Philip Lowe, but I'm definitely going to look for the video which I'm sure will be extremely helpful.


Finally, your suggestion to stick with new versus vintage cool carving tools and recommendations for specific brands is exactly the kind of practical knowledge I need to get started. I really appreciate you taking the time to pass along your very helpful insights!

The world of carving and carving tools sure looks daunting to a beginner like me, and the information from you and others here on the Creek is just the push I need to get me started.

All the best, Mike

[David Keller NC]

Mike - You're welcome, hope it helps. Many, many of us carvers have tools that we've never used because they were bought as part of a "starter set".

Eventually, you will have hundreds of carving tools, but the vast majority of these are for specialized cuts and situations that are infrequently used. Though I have about 250 carving tools, only about 25 see regular use. And for that reason, it's far more economical to buy the tools as you need them.

Regarding instruction - videos are very useful, and far more useful than books, in my opinion. But another quantum leap is to be had by getting "live" instruction by watching someone carve at the bench. It would be well worth your money to take a carving class at a local woodworking store, local University craft shop, or even put a classified ad in SMC for an experienced carver to come to your shop (or you come to his/her shop). Even an hour or two of instruction will be a huge revelation.

Good Luck.

[Wade Clark]

All great advice!
I differ a little in opinion on buying sets. They're a good way to get a well rounded beginning. Sure, in a while some will hardly ever get used, but you'll learn some from each tool. Obviously, if you had lots of experience you'd custom choose tool by tool. And, let's face it, as we collect tools, we end up with some we never use... and wouldn't part with just in case. But with the guidance given by Bryan and David, you'll do just fine without buying a set.
If you pick up an Ashley Iles or Pheil gouge and hold it next to a Henry Taylor, you'll be shocked at the difference in quality, workmanship, weight, sharpness and the list goes on. Henry Taylor looks pretty good if you've never seen or used any carving tools. Ashley Iles are works of art, in my opinion... I've collected a few hundred of them, mostly off ebay, new. There's the other hazard; becoming a tool collector! I've given away 5 sets of 30 Ashley Iles tools, one to each of my 5 kids. I still have about 130, and no duplicates! I've used most of them at least once, but I like being able to grab a slightly different size without overthinking it. Truth is, 30 can be a pretty complete set if you choose according to need, and 10 can be all you'll ever need if you have lots of talent to go with it. More tools doesn't compete with more talent!
As for cost, new you can figure about $25 to $100 or so per tool. Worth every penny!
Best of luck!

[Jane Henson]

Mike,
Seeing what you want to carver I would recommend you check out Nora Hall's website: NoraHall.com

Nora is/was a very highly regarded carver, trained in Europe. Regrettably she passed away this summer but her family is continuing to support her legacy and maintain her website. She offers several starter packages that include both tools and DVD's, which by reputation are said to be some of the best instructional carving DVD's out there.
You should also check out WoodCarvingIllustrated.com forum. There are many threads there with this exact same question and I have no doubt you'll find what you're looking for.

Jane

[Terry Beadle]

I like Phil Lowe's approach shown in his video.

http://www.amazon.com/Carve-Ball-Claw-Foot-VHS/dp/6301918770

He details the carving tools to use, out lines several types of ball and claw types,.. His teaching style is very practical.

I think he runs a school near Boston too.