Hem-Fir vs Douglas Fir for Benchtop?

[Peter Hawser]

I try to find information on my own, but I am very confused. I want to build a workbench aka the Schwarz method of using whatever local wood I can find that is suitable and cheap. I'd love nothing more than a bench made from $1000 of maple or ash, but that's not in the cards for now. A great lumber yard nearby (not Lowes or Home Depot) has #1 appearance grade hem-fir 4x4s for about $15 each. Meanwhile I know there are people right here on this forum who built beautiful benches from Douglas Fir 4x4s they found at the Borg. My Borg's have 4x4's they list as Douglas Fir, but are such low quality and I am too impatient to collect one or two good boards at a time over the coming months. I can get 8 or 10 in one trip to my lumber yard.

So, the question (finally). Is Hem-Fir suitable or equivalent to Douglas Fir? Can you even be sure the Douglas Fir at Lowes is NOT hem-fir? My head is spinning. Thank you.

[David Kumm]

You should be able to tell DF by looking at it. It is much stiffer than hemfir but that is only really relevant if the bench is long since the roubo bench has no underneath support. DF can be slivery whereas hemfir is not. Personally I would call various lumber yards and see who carries nice southern yellow pine 2x10's and price them out for the top. Stiff, soft and easy to work with SYP stays a little more stable as well as the bench eventually dries from 15-18% down to 10-12% over time. Hem fir is suitable but not equivalent. DF and SYP equal so go with best quality for price. Dave

[Peter Hawser]

Thanks Dave. No SYP here in NJ or NY. I simply can't find it. Why, why couldn't Chris Schwarz be from the Northeast? What would he have used...

[Peter Aeschliman]

I haven't used douglass fir before, but I just finished a project I made out of hemlock fir. I will never use it again, mostly because it takes stain/dye horribly. It's it's more blotchy than any other softwood I've used before. But that's beside the point.

The other reason I won't use hemlock is because it's very soft and lightweight as compared to pine or doug fir. For a bench top, I don't think hemlock would be hard enough to endure the abuse.

[Tony Shea]

I originally wanted to go with SYP for my top but being in Maine it is not a common wood at my local yards. Doug Fir is everywhere so decided on that. Some places around here are getting insane amounts of money for their doug fir, $42 per 4x4x8'. It is all CVG (clear vertical grain) but is seriously over priced. Checked out HD and they had very similar stuff for $12. I had to be much more picky and patient though but eventually got what I needed and never looked back. I typically hate supporting my local HD or Lowes but 4 times the price for the same stuff is not even a question of morals.

As far as DF and SYP being equal I would have to disagree. They are close in terms of strength but SYP def is the better cantidate. Hem-Fir will work but will not quite match the strength of DF or SYP. Any wood works for a bench, just some are more suited than others. In reality, any softwood is not a perfect bench material but does get the job done. Better than a plywood bench for sure.

[Peter Hawser]

Thanks guys, I'm learning. Another thing that confuses me is I was told it is called Hem-Fir, because it could be either Hemlock or Fir. This is what drives me nuts. We don't have Cher-Map do we? Of course not, we have cherry and we have maple!!! So if hem-fir is fir, this is NOT douglas fir, correct?

[Jim Koepke]

My advice would be to look for a local sawyer and keep in touch with them as to what they may happen upon.

One of them locals around me had a bunch of ash for $1/bf. It will be a lot of planing and laminating, but eventually I will make a new bench.

Check with any other wood workers or tool shops. The wider the net you put out, the more likely you will find something.

jtk

[Peter Cobb]

If I can make a suggestion, why not get a 2x6 in each of them and make yourself a couple of sawbenches?
It would give hands-on experience with their pros, cons and quirks, AND you finish up 2 useful appliances (Bob Rozaieski actually built his workbench on his sawbenches).
It seems so sensible I might even follow my own advice
Cheers,
Peter

[Trevor Walsh]

In the borgs near me in Southeastern PA D.Fir is about the more common wood fir 2by and 4by. I have liked how the D.Fir laminates, planes etc. I'd pass on the 4x4s though and build with 2by D.Fir

[Wilbur Pan]

I guess I should weigh in since you were nice enough to call my bench "beautiful".

To my knowledge, "Hem-Fir" is a catchall term that includes Western hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla) and Amabilis fir (Abies amabilis). There's also an eastern Hemlock as well. Either way, these species are within shouting distance of Douglas fir in terms of density. Douglas fir is stiffer, but if you are thinking about building a Roubo, any wood top that is 4" thick will be plenty stiff enough for a workbench top.

I've the good luck to talk to Chris Schwarz about a number of things, and his take home message on workbench wood is to go for cheap and easy to work with. A thick enough top will take care of any stiffness issues, and if you make your bench long enough, it will be heavy enough.

So if the hem-fir at your local lumber yard works well with your planes, I'd go for it. One other option is to see if your lumber yard can order boards of your choosing for you. If they can get their hands on appearance grade hem-fir, they probably can order Douglas fir 4x4's (or 4x6's or 4x8's) for you.

By the way, many of the 4x4's that I used for my bench had a few knots in them. I just buried them on the underside. I've had a chance to see Chris Schwarz's first Roubo close up, and he did the same with his SYP boards.

As far as how suitable Douglas fir is for a workbench, if I had to make my bench over again, I'd use Douglas fir in a heartbeat.

[David Kumm]

I was referring primarily to strength in comparing Df to SYP. The real benefit to the pine is the ability to get clear wood vs the knotty DF generally available now. I have some old growth Df and it is great to work with. Stay away from 4x4 stuff in any species and stick with 2x10 or similar. 12 footers make the legs and top and are generally better quality than shorter pieces although you can sort to some extent. It gets pretty hard to glue thicker boards together unless perfectly jointed and maybe slightly relieved in the middle so 2 by are the easier wood to work with. Check around and find what is common in your area. Sometimes soft maple, ash, or even hickory are cheaper in an area. I found some 6/4 cherry at under $2/ bd ft from a local guy who wanted rid of it and it was too nice for a bench. Look around for someone with a kiln as they sometimes have stuff stored they will deal on. They get local trees cut up and since times are tough they may be happy to get some cash for tomorrow. Dave

[Bill Haumann]

There is SYP in Central NJ, but not at Lowe's or Home Depot. I saw it last week the day after I finished buying poplar for a workbench.
Not sure how much the lumber yard is asking for it.

- Bill

[Andrae Covington]

Thanks guys, I'm learning. Another thing that confuses me is I was told it is called Hem-Fir, because it could be either Hemlock or Fir. This is what drives me nuts. We don't have Cher-Map do we? Of course not, we have cherry and we have maple!!! So if hem-fir is fir, this is NOT douglas fir, correct?

...To my knowledge, "Hem-Fir" is a catchall term that includes Western hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla) and Amabilis fir (Abies amabilis). There's also an eastern Hemlock as well. Either way, these species are within shouting distance of Douglas fir in terms of density. Douglas fir is stiffer, but if you are thinking about building a Roubo, any wood top that is 4" thick will be plenty stiff enough for a workbench top...

The Hem-Fir designation includes Western Hemlock, California Red Fir, Grand Fir, Noble Fir, Pacific Silver Fir, and White Fir. These trees have similar properties, at least from the perspective of the building framing lumber industry. The structural qualities are a little less than Douglas-fir. There are other Hemlocks besides Western that may also get lumped into this framing lumber category on the East Coast, I am not sure. At the hand tool level, there are probably some differences in workability which could make one example of "Hem-Fir" better than another. Without being an expert on wood identification, it may be difficult to ascertain just what specific species the lumberyard has.

Douglas-fir (genus Pseudotsuga) is not a true fir (genus Abies), by the way. There are two major types, the coastal variety that grows here from the Cascade Mountains to the Pacific Ocean, and the inland type that grows in the Rockies and elsewhere. The coastal Douglas-fir is usually designated on framing lumber as "DF". Inland Douglas-fir often cohabits with Western Larch (genus Larix), a similar but unrelated species. For framing lumber they are often combined and the grade stamp is "DF-L". Sometimes in the Southwest you may see a grade stamp "DF(S)" for "Southern" Douglas-fir, which I believe is considered slightly inferior to the northern types but still acceptable for structural lumber.

I agree with Peter Cobb's suggestion to buy a board and make a sawhorse or two, or at least play around with it, sawing, planing, chiseling, etc. If the wood seems workable, then go for it.

... Some places around here are getting insane amounts of money for their doug fir, $42 per 4x4x8'. It is all CVG (clear vertical grain) but is seriously over priced. Checked out HD and they had very similar stuff for $12. I had to be much more picky and patient though but eventually got what I needed and never looked back. I typically hate supporting my local HD or Lowes but 4 times the price for the same stuff is not even a question of morals...

CVG Douglas-fir is somewhat difficult to come by, and must be quartersawn (or at least riftsawn) out of the tree, hence the much higher price. The trees have this bad habit of sprouting branches all around at regular intervals, leaving knots all over the place all the way to the pith. CVG is designated for trim work and must be carefully sorted to ensure it meets that grading quality. And the sawing process is much more time-consuming than machine-automated flatsawing. Structural lumber also has some rules about how many knots and how big, etc. but of course they are much looser regulations. So there is very little labor involved in sorting boards for that purpose. Sometimes a structural board will end up almost entirely clear by chance, especially the 2x12's, and if you can snag one it is a good deal.

[Robert Rozaieski]

Hem-Fir makes a fine bench.
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Build an English Workbench Podcast

[Chris Fournier]

There is no need to spend $1000 on hardwoood for a bench in Canada land of 1.3% US pricing so you can do better in the Land Of The Free. Look around for lumber wholesalers and buy your hard maple or what have you from them. By all means use SPF or what ever for the base if you are cost conscious but a hardwood top should be beyond the budgetary constraints of very few. Supplier savvy will get you the bench you want. No need to compromise.