Member
As entertaining as this thread has been, I now have to toss in my two bits(inflation, ya know?). While I have witnessed dowsing in action, and followed up with a metal detector and confirmed the results, I am not equipped with the gift. Try as I might, I cannot make the rods cross, the branch dip, or what have you. Still and all, I have seen it work. And I have verified the results, both with a metal detector, and a shovel. An that's all I have to say about that.
Mick
Contributor
All I know is if I ever have to have work done and someone starts wandering around my property with rods, he's fired.
Member
if everyone had this attitude we would still be wandering around wearing animal skins and making fire by rubbing sticks together.i assume it does not work for you just as it does not work for lots of people but that's no reason to condemn it out of hand, others feel just as strongly that it works just fine including meOriginally Posted by John Coloccia
Contributor
Bruce, I go to the track to bet on the ponies. I look over the stats, check it based on speed and finishes and lineage and jockey and come up with what I think is the best possible outcome. When we bring along non horse/non race people, they pick out the pretty ones...they pick winners as often or MORE often than I do...
I drink, therefore I am.
Member
How many here believe in a god? If I hadn't read the first post I would say the conversation was about pretty much any such belief system that's been going on from time immortal. Can't prove it can't disprove it. There are still people that believe the earth is flat, even in the face of irrefutable evidence... Science can be such a wet blanket to a healthy fantasy life.
I'm positive there are unicorns, faeries and mermaids... Now prove me wrong... Even if you do I won't believe you...
There was a study recently released that found when the majority of people that have unsubstantiated beliefs (which basically means all of us have a little secret or two) are faced with strong evidence (often irrefutable) that proves what they believe is wrong it actually causes that person to retreat deeper into and hold on that belief system much tighter than before. It also caused them to try to find evidence (weak as it may be) to support their position as opposed to looking for the "truth".
Just like everything else on the internet this conversation will play out again in about 6 months.
Now where was I... Oh ya looking for Lilliput in my garden.
Last edited by Brian Ashton; 06-22-2011 at 12:09 AM.
Sent from the bathtub on my Samsung Galaxy(C)S5 with waterproof Lifeproof Case(C), and spell check turned off!
Member
Joe, never said that I could. I'm not going to claim that it is 100% accurate, only that when I have needed them I have been successful more times then not. That being said, they certainly do not replace calling in to have the area located for existing utilities. Seems some people have better results than others too - the wands would never move for my foreman - same set in my hands would get good results. Our superintendent could dang near walk down a street and accurately map all the lines. What I'm saying is that from what I have experienced it does work for some people, maybe not enough to win a million but certainly well enough to keep production going.Take your field experience and go win the $1,000,000 prize.
Seriously. Why wouldn't you? Unless you couldn't....
Member
So at best it is condition based? Works for some, not others? No one has 100% accuracy?
If folks want to believe in dowsing, so be it. Use to be that proving or disproving a matter was sufficient. Now they have to prove something is false and have to disprove it's true.
Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.
Member
Randi only requires that you are consistently better than chance, you don't have to be anywhere near perfect.
Contributor
Sounds an awful lot like guessing...
Moderator
Or, science can be wrong or incomplete.
Have you seen the studies about dog's knowing when the owner is coming home, no matter what time the owner comes home? They have studied and studied that and to this day, as far as I know, they have not been able to figure out how a dog knows when you are coming home. Does that mean that it doesn't happen? No, it just means that there are things that science can't explain at this point in time.
Some of you seem to believe that science is over and done with and that we know it all and know all the answers. It's not, and we don't.
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Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.
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In light of the ongoing discussion I read this today. New study anyone? Humans may possess a magnetic "sixth sense".
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...se/?test=faces
“Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy and chivalry.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson
Everybody knows what to do with the devil but them that has him. My Grandmother
I had a guardian angel at one time, but my little devil got him drunk, tattooed, and left him penniless at a strip club. I have not had another angel assigned to me yet.
I didn't change my mind, my mind changed me.
Bella Terra
Member
I couldn't have said it better myself.
It reminds me of the way some atheists are just as reverential, evangelical and often more militantly intolerant of opposing views than the Bible-thumpingest Baptist they claim to be above.
As Donald Rumsfeld once famously said, "Absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence."
Just because I have never caught a fish in Crater Lake doesn't prove there are no fish in Crater Lake.
I think to truly approach a question "scientifically," the first thing you have to do is say, "I'll admit every possibility." Closed-mindedness is very un-scientific, IMHO. It stinks of prejudice, bias and subjectivity.
Last edited by Jacob Reverb; 06-22-2011 at 9:34 AM.
Contributor
Here's the problem, Scott. There's this pervasive feeling out there that everyone wants to show up the "smarty pants" scientists. No one said that science has the answer to everything right now. In fact, science has done particularly well in being flexible in the face of new evidence...incredibly well. It's certainly more accepting of new evidence than all here who won't consider what it means that controlled experiments show no effect. We're not the ones with the closed minds. These days, having an open mind is equated with a belief in magic. I don't believe in magic. Miracles? Sure. I don't see dowsing as miraculous.
Everyone misunderstands the scientist. Do you think for a second that if I thought there was ANYTHING at all to it that I wouldn't be doing experiments left and right to try and prove it? I would do everything I could to show that there is a real, physical effect, I would write a bunch of papers, and I would claim my Nobel prize. So would anyone else. That's why serious scientists are constantly doing experiments with things like this, telekinesis, telepathy etc etc. Any discovery in any of these areas would be of Nobel quality, and yet it never works when the experiment is sufficiently controlled.
As Joe has said, for anyone who feels there's something to it there's $1,000,000 waiting.
Member
It's funny that some people think a scientific approach is all about taking an opinion and sticking to it. It's not, folks. It's based on being able to repeat a result in controlled experimentation. If you can repeat it, it's fact. If you can't repeat it, it's opinion. Nobody is more willing to change their minds than scientists. But that change is never based on gut feeling. It's based on new evidence that can be tested, with consistent, repeatable results obtained using the scientific method.
That said, you'd think one of the 7,000,000,000 people on this planet could dowse with a high success rate under controlled conditions if dowsing was real. Zero out of a control group of seven billion?? That's pretty conclusive...
EDIT: You type too fast, John...
Last edited by Joe Angrisani; 06-22-2011 at 10:14 AM.
Member
The conventional wisdom among laymen seems to be that science is a collection of corrupt, elitists that are only interested in obtaining grants to support their lifestyles.
The definition of scientific theory has been hijacked and now everything is being called into question by people whose motives are as questionable as they are reckless.
I will not apologize for believing that 2+2=4.
Not recognized is how competitive the scientific community is. Names and careers are made by challenging a theory and further refining our understanding of the natural world. In essences, these guys make names for themselves by going after other scientist. These guys often times have passionate disagreements and set forth to prove their point in a controlled and repeatable fashion.
And then their findings are submitted to their peers to see if any of them can take it apart. And don't think they don't want to shred someone else's idea to tatters. I think we give these guys too much credit as being a chummy community.
Just because dowsing has not be proven to not work to ones satisfaction does not mean it does work. But that is the climate we live in these days. You have to prove a negative.
You want to believe in dowsing, go right ahead. Just don't get upset when I doubt it's accuracy. In my world, 2+2 always equals 4.
Last edited by Greg Peterson; 06-22-2011 at 10:14 AM.
Measure twice, cut three times, start over. Repeat as necessary.
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