very thin steel strings

[john brenton]

I play an instrument that uses ten of the same gauge, very thin metal or bronze strings (preference on the type). I think they are probably in the .06 gauge range, but I can't find anything like that at least in the musical instrument world. I've tried the .07 and it just is not the same...too heavy. Anyone have any ideas on which instrument would use it, or would I be better off going to a craft store and looking for some wire?

Thanks!

[Mark Crenshaw]

Hi John.

I found these folks thru a modeling forum. They list coils of .064" high-strength phosper bronze. No telling how musical it is but probably worth a try. They also have similar diameters in plain steel and stainless.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#metal-wire/=cjs7se

Peace,
Mark

[george wilson]

You can just buy carbon steel music wire. If you do,buy the wire that is NOT tin plated. It sounds significantly better.

[john brenton]

Thanks guys. The "carbon steel music wire" search pulled up a site that looks very promising http://www.fortepiano.com/wire/Roeslau/roeslau.htm

Awesome!

[Chris Fournier]

You can just buy carbon steel music wire. If you do,buy the wire that is NOT tin plated. It sounds significantly better.

Buy this from a fastener specialist and it will be relatively cheap as well! Buy it from a musical supplier and it will cost you ^!

[george wilson]

The small diameter wire costs the most,as it took more drawings to make it thin,and there are many more feet of it in a quarter pound coil.

[Bill Petersen]

Heck with where to get the strings, I'm curious as to what instrument you play that takes ten of the same gauge string. Inquiring minds want to know.
Bill

[john brenton]

It's a charango. There's a ton of charango styles and tunings, but here's a pic of a particular charango that takes the thin metal strings. http://www.charango.ch/z_cpg144/disp...?album=7&pos=4

It's tuned with 5 sets of two, and all the strings are in the same octave. The strings do get pretty loose on the fourths and if you finger the chord in a bad position it can warp the sound, so some people will put a thicker gauge or a nylon string, but I don't like the sound. It drones too much for me.

Here's a video of it being played. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-OkT...eature=related

Heck with where to get the strings, I'm curious as to what instrument you play that takes ten of the same gauge string. Inquiring minds want to know.
Bill

[Mark Hunt]

Hi, Ive made a few steel string instruments over the years, and use a a string calculator (its a Finish site but is written in English)

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mu...scalc.html#TOP

Here you can calculate the thickness of strings, from their length and note required. The note depends on the thickness, length and density of material used and string tension. Its better to buy strings by its measured thickness rather than gauge, as different standards apply in different parts of the world and in different industries.

[Russell Sansom]

they are probably in the .06 gauge range

I'm not sure what ".06 gauge" means. If you mean .006", I don't think you'll musical wire that thin....or that you would find it sturdy enough for picking. It you can borrow a micrometer somewhere, the best thing is to measure what's there. If memory serves me right, .008" is about the smallest I've ever seen on any stringed instrument. That's the thinnest I've ever used on any of my harpsichords and clavichords. My finest mandolin and violin E strings are around .010"

I'm no longer in touch with harpsichord suppliers, but I think there are a many on the internet these days, so it should be trivial to research their range of sizes. There was a time not so long ago when you could actually buy piano wire in a hardware store. Once in a while these days I bump into those old yellow and black open-faced boxes that they sold 1/4 lb rolls in. and sold as "piano" wire. If I were going to make serious music, I would buy musical instrument wire

[Shaun Mahood]

John, I'm not sure if you've tried them but StringsByMail.com has some Aquila Nylgut charango strings. I haven't tried them as they didn't have them listed last time I looked, but I've heard generally good things about the nylgut for use with classical guitars. I'm going to pick some up next time I order guitar strings (if I remember), since my charango has some broken strings and I haven't actually gotten started playing with it.

Where's your charango from?

[john brenton]

Shaun,

Cool, a fellow charanguero in the forum. Right now all I have is a very old Isaac Rivas with nylon strings. It's such a gem I shouldn't even have it stringed up, but it's already had work done to it so it's not that pristine. I'm into steel stringed charangos and used to have a wide collection of hualaychos and chilladores, but sold them all to buy woodworking tools to make my own. I'm just about to finish the first charango that I actually wouldn't mind sharing with the world. I spent yesterday putting the purfling, binding, crummy rosette and pearloid gaurds on. It looks horrible, but it'll do. Cutting the rabbet and shelf for the binding and purfling really wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.

I just ordered a taper reamer and 60 rosewood pegs. Now all I need is strings. I have big dreams of making charangos for myself. Nobody will make the charangos that I like, and these Bolivians are just too inconsistent. Peruvian charangos are ok, but the last time I was there I didn't get around to picking one up. I was going to have Jesus Alverado make me a charango, and I even called him...but I couldn't follow through. I'll probably regret that one day.

I really don't care for the nylgut, and I really did my best to make them work for me. I think they are a trend that kind of failed. I know the lute guys like them. A friend of mine bought 144 sets from Mimmo to sell to Bolivian luthiers but nobody wanted them. I gave them a good go on a few charangos but was never really happy. By the time they get good it's time to change them out. I guess that's the way all real gut strings are though too, or so I've heard.

I got a set of "carbon" strings from Savarez (they are a nylon something or rather special thingamabobs), and they were fantastic. I have them fitted on my charango right now.

Medina Artigas ALL nylon (including the low E, not the micro-entorchado) still gives the best sound IMO.

John, I'm not sure if you've tried them but StringsByMail.com has some Aquila Nylgut charango strings. I haven't tried them as they didn't have them listed last time I looked, but I've heard generally good things about the nylgut for use with classical guitars. I'm going to pick some up next time I order guitar strings (if I remember), since my charango has some broken strings and I haven't actually gotten started playing with it.

Where's your charango from?

[Shaun Mahood]

Wow John, that's pretty awesome. I would love to see the finished product (and any work in progress pics, of course).

[john brenton]

Shaun,

It's hideous. Here it is as it stands today. It's all hand tool made, and it's definitely nothing to brag about...but it's a start. I'm really not very competent in general, but I also intentionally set the bar low. In the past I've set a standard, and when I don't meet it I get frustrated and dump it. This time I set my mind to at the very least taking it through all it's passes and trying to learn as much as I can.

It's one piece, 8/4 Spanish Cedar, hollowed out with a 1.5" gouge, cut to general outline with my bowsaws, hewed with a hewing hatchet to basic shape, then smoothed with a drawknife and a rasp. It was a real chore with this soft and hairy cedar, but definitely a lot less work than a laminated sides guitar. The top is just some quarter oriented pine lumber from the borg. The hardwood pieces are some leftovers I had laying around. The nut isn't glued on or anything, but it's a piece of ebony from some piano keys I picked up a few years ago. I made a really nice ebony bridge from a key too but the dang thing cracked. I had shaped and even put a little carving in there. It was actually probably the nicest thing I've ever made. It was the final little touch that did it too...as always. I thought "lemme just touch up this little tiny flaw here" and you know what I'm talking about. The bridge in the picture isn't going to be the bridge, I just put it there for an idea.

The ONE thing that I've done consistently well before is the thing that came out the crummiest. I've designed unique celluloid guards for three or four charangos and they've all come out perfect...this one is just hideous. I tried to do something different, and looking at it now If I would have make the right side a little longer it actually would look cool. I've had luck with straying from the typical style and just doing whatever I feel like, but on this one I had to cover some serious ugliness on the top of the rosette. Instead of making the rosette seperately and then installing, I thought I could just put them in place and went for it. The purfling strips came out of the recess while it was gluing and I didn't notice until it was done. I'll have to do something different with the rosette next time. I like the old style of mother of pearl pieces and that colored wood filler.

The great thing about the charango that I found this time is that regular old jorgenson clamps can reach everywhere inside. I feel that the soundhole is outrageously huge, but I like that I can fit two clamps in there. I'll have to see if I can shrink the hole and still do that. I don't have any specialty clamps so that's a boon.

It's funny how you step back and see things. The third picture is something I messed with a few minutes ago in paint while I was thinking about what went wrong. This is what I may do to try and fix the the guard. I like this. If you squint your eyes you can see how it would look. I may try my hand at an acetone splice...I'm sure it will go horribly wrong, but why not?

Wow John, that's pretty awesome. I would love to see the finished product (and any work in progress pics, of course).

[Shaun Mahood]

I think that looks fine John - I'm not a fan of the guard either, but I don't really like guards in general so it's hard to tell if that's why.

Good job getting started and not giving up because it's not perfect, that's one of my main struggles in pretty much everything. Now you just have to get to the point where it makes noise - I bet it will be a good surprise!