Buying a computer, should I get a Mac?

[Bryan Morgan]

For scientific programs, music, or graphics, mac is generally preferred.

We recently took away a couple Mac Pros from our designers because they never used them. Also, one of our big customers is the design part of a major auto manufacturer... not too long ago they replaced all of their Macs with PCs (hp z400's I believe...). The old "Macs are better for graphics" stuff just doesn't hold up any more. Even our production staff which is equipped with Macs and PCs rarely use the Macs because no clients ever bring us Mac files to work on... just sayin'

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I have 2 pc's, one Linux laptop and two macs at home. The pc's take about 10 times the time to maintain as the 3 other machines. With 35 years in the computer industry - I usually recommend a Mac when friends ask. At least then I know I won't be spending time at their house fixing their machine. I maintain 16 machines at work and I'm now veterinarian. Can't seem to get away from fixing Windows machines. Sigh.

[Scott Shepherd]

Phil, my point was simply that if you had listened to people in 200(3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) about the upcoming threat to Mac's and it scared you away from Mac's, then you would have missed 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 years of not having to worry about it at all. Will it come? Sure. Am I going to change my buying choice of something that may happen this year, next year, or 5 years from now? No.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1567...1_viruses.html

I didn't get a Mac to stop dealing with virus'. As I stated above, I really think the user experience is much more fluid and intuitive, that's why I like it. The built is software that works well together allows me to do things that I'd normally have to spend $100's of dollars on other software to do. I don't care which one anyone buys, I was responding to a question and I gave my personal experience with them.

And let's be clear, there is a huge difference in a virus and malware. There are malware programs out there (macdefender), but I don't think there are too many virus'. Also, let's be clear. If there does come a day where there is one for the mac and it's going around, that'll be 1. Right now, how many are there for the PC? A 100,000? A 1,000,000? I think I like my odds on that one on the mac a lot better.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, my point was simply that if you had listened to people in 200(3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) about the upcoming threat to Mac's and it scared you away from Mac's, then you would have missed 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 years of not having to worry about it at all. Will it come? Sure. Am I going to change my buying choice of something that may happen this year, next year, or 5 years from now? No.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1567...1_viruses.html

I'll see you that article and raise you this:

http://www.macworld.com/article/1595...jan_horse.html

and this:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...nclick_check=1

and my favorite, this:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...oesnt-password

"Mac fake anti-virus malware is evolving fast, doesn't need a password"

I didn't get a Mac to stop dealing with virus'. As I stated above, I really think the user experience is much more fluid and intuitive, that's why I like it. The built is software that works well together allows me to do things that I'd normally have to spend $100's of dollars on other software to do. I don't care which one anyone buys, I was responding to a question and I gave my personal experience with them.

What built-in software are you referring to?

And let's be clear, there is a huge difference in a virus and malware. There are malware programs out there (macdefender), but I don't think there are too many virus'. Also, let's be clear. If there does come a day where there is one for the mac and it's going around, that'll be 1. Right now, how many are there for the PC? A 100,000? A 1,000,000? I think I like my odds on that one on the mac a lot better.

Well, malware just stands for "malicious software." Don't get hung up on whether something is a virus, a Trojan, etc. They're all bad, they all interfere with getting work done, and they all result in costs to the user (either purchasing software to get rid of them, paying someone else to, or lost productivity as you do the work yourself).

The Mac Defender you refer to is the sort of malware that Windows users are struggling with. 99% of infections are of this sort. These are the infections that have been driving people nuts.

2011 may well be the year of the onslaught.

Keep in mind, BTW, that the latest incarnation of some of this PC crap is actually hiding every file it can find on the hard drive. In some cases it is only hiding files in the user's folder, in a few I've seen it hide every single file on the drive.

We're about this far (holds up index finger and thumb with little separation) from some script kiddy getting this code, modifying it, and having it actually delete files on the hard drive. Or worse, overwriting files on the hard drive.

So everyone (PC and Mac) should be backing up their important files routinely.

[Shawn Pixley]

We recently took away a couple Mac Pros from our designers because they never used them. Also, one of our big customers is the design part of a major auto manufacturer... not too long ago they replaced all of their Macs with PCs (hp z400's I believe...). The old "Macs are better for graphics" stuff just doesn't hold up any more. Even our production staff which is equipped with Macs and PCs rarely use the Macs because no clients ever bring us Mac files to work on... just sayin'

I don't know what your industry is, but I have yet to meet a graphic designer that switched from using a Mac to using a PC without being forced to by their employer. There are big forces on employers (internal and external) to convert to PC's. This tends to follow a few patterns such as lowest initial cost (don't get me started on lifecycle cost analysis), capabilities of internal tech support, (typically PC focused), and readiness to enable outsourced tech support (seldom Mac capable). I could draw the analogy to the Eisenhower quote, "...we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." The pressures for conformity in computer "thinking" are immense. Please note that I used the term preferred. I would prefer to use a Mac at work, I am required to use a PC.
As to CADD modeling or BIM, the PC's are ahead there. A major reason that Macs tend to dominate the creative type, I believe, comes from a left brain, right brain type of criteria. The intuitive nature of a Mac interface is not a hindrance to the creative process. From my experience with the PC, there are more brain cells dedicated to the question, "how do I get the computer to do this?", than to the design you are creating. This flips when you go from designing to drafting where the precision aspect cuts in. Page layout is in that space. I suspect that is part of what you are seeing when you reference your experience with the auto manufacturer.

[Scott Shepherd]

Yes Phil, and here's the article to support it's not a big deal....

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4650

Now, read that article carefully. I suggest many people do. Actually read it and the steps. First and foremost, the OS update is resolving this issue, so it'll be a non starter in conversation as of Friday, until something new comes out. I think it's excellent that a major malware comes out and it's almost immediate addressed as the OS level.

Now, let's go through the article for removal, just in case you did get it.

If it's not installed :


1) Go into the Downloads folder or your preferred download location.
2) Drag the installer to the Trash.
3) Empty the Trash.

If you did get it installed

1) Move or close the Scan Window
2) Go to the Utilities folder in the Applications folder and launch Activity Monitor
3) Choose All Processes from the pop up menu in the upper right corner of the window
4) Under the Process Name column, look for the name of the app and click to select it; common app names include: MacDefender, MacSecurity or MacProtector
5) Click the Quit Process button in the upper left corner of the window and select Quit
6) Quit Activity Monitor application
7) Open the Applications folder
8) Locate the app ex. MacDefender, MacSecurity, MacProtector or other name
9) Drag to Trash, and empty Trash

No where in that fix (if you were infected) did I see anything about having to go download adaware, malwarebytes, ccleaner, avast, avg, or anything else. There was no third party software required. To me, the above is one heck of an easy fix for malware. Something anyone can do. However, not everyone can go into regedit on the PC and determine which registery entry needs to be removed.

That, again, is my point, from my standpoint, as a user, it's more intuitive to use on a daily basis. My parents, in their 70's aren't going to know how to download and run registry cleaners, and all the other software on download.com to get their system working. However, they can easily do the 9 steps above and be done.

When the virus' plaque happens, we'll talk about it. For now, it's just not there. It's laughable that people argue this case because there "may" be something coming. When you compare whats currently out there on the PC and what's currently out there on the Mac, there is zero evidence to suggest that your chances of getting malware or a virus is greater than on the PC. Not today, not yesterday, and not tomorrow. 5 years from now? Probably not either. Again, if I have to pick one that's got 5 known issues or one that's got 1,000,000 known issues, I know which one I'll pick.

[Greg Peterson]

A local recording studio that uses a Mac has had to replace the audio card on their Mac five times. This machine is six years old and the audio card dies in less than a year.

Another studio that runs a mobile recording unit moved from their Mac laptop to a PC laptop and has not looked back.

Mac's offer a great alternative to the PC. However, any perceived difference between the two platforms is vastly overstated.

As for the Mac just getting infected with 'just malware', most people would consider giving their credit card number to the Russian mafia a major problem.

[Scott Shepherd]

As for the Mac just getting infected with 'just malware', most people would consider giving their credit card number to the Russian mafia a major problem.

If that was the case, then they would have stopped using PC's years ago

[Greg Peterson]

This is true, Scott. But anyone that thinks they are fundamentally insulated from these threats simply because they have an Apple OS is in for a rude awakening.

It simply comes down to which environment best provides the services and solutions the user requires. Buying a PC because more apps are available should not be the main selling point if your needs are simple, such as browsing and consumer grade multi-media. Buying a Mac because they never crash, fail or get infected is an equally uninformed decision.

As Apple continues to grow their footprint, so to will grow their attack surface.

I imagine smart phones will become the next thing.

[Scott Shepherd]

Buying a Mac because they never crash, fail or get infected is an equally uninformed decision.

If you read my initial post, I said my Mac has crashed several times, and it's locked up several times. I think my assessment was honest from my experience as a normal user, not a power user kinda guy.

No need to wait for the smartphone virus, it's already here and hitting android phones. So much so that google is tightening their control over it.

As I said, for me, it's not about anything big. It's about the small stuff. The small details, the small ways things work together. The small ways like I mentioned earlier. Not having to open the control panel and then "add/remove programs" and then wait for that to populate and then click on it, uninstall it, then reboot versus drag the file to the trash can and it's over. Doesn't seem like much, but when you fill you day with 100's of those little things, it makes for a nicer user experience for ME. Maybe not for you, but for me, it does. I'm not suggesting anyone buy or don't buy a mac, i've just giving my user experience and they can read or ignore it,as they see fit.

I think my 30 years of using PC's earned me the right to have an opinion about it.

[Phil Thien]

Yes Phil, and here's the article to support it's not a big deal....

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4650

I just don't agree it is not a big deal. Within weeks, this thing has morphed from something that required a password to install, to something that doesn't require a password. You have nine steps for removing this last incarnation. What happens on the next one? Will people be able to remove it?

My point is, for 99% of the people I know buying Mac, it is all about not getting any malware. Period. Windows is plenty intuitive. They like the software they have. They're comfortable with Windows. They are almost literally running to Mac because of malware.

Now, read that article carefully. I suggest many people do. Actually read it and the steps. First and foremost, the OS update is resolving this issue, so it'll be a non starter in conversation as of Friday, until something new comes out. I think it's excellent that a major malware comes out and it's almost immediate addressed as the OS level.

Sorry, I consider that reactive. No better, maybe worse, than many of the security updates that have occurred for Windows.

BTW, there is ALREADY a new version of Mac Defender:

http://www.securemac.com/

Now it has morphed into "Mac Guard."

Now, let's go through the article for removal, just in case you did get it.

If it's not installed :


1) Go into the Downloads folder or your preferred download location.
2) Drag the installer to the Trash.
3) Empty the Trash.

If you did get it installed

1) Move or close the Scan Window
2) Go to the Utilities folder in the Applications folder and launch Activity Monitor
3) Choose All Processes from the pop up menu in the upper right corner of the window
4) Under the Process Name column, look for the name of the app and click to select it; common app names include: MacDefender, MacSecurity or MacProtector
5) Click the Quit Process button in the upper left corner of the window and select Quit
6) Quit Activity Monitor application
7) Open the Applications folder
8) Locate the app ex. MacDefender, MacSecurity, MacProtector or other name
9) Drag to Trash, and empty Trash

No where in that fix (if you were infected) did I see anything about having to go download adaware, malwarebytes, ccleaner, avast, avg, or anything else. There was no third party software required. To me, the above is one heck of an easy fix for malware. Something anyone can do. However, not everyone can go into regedit on the PC and determine which registery entry needs to be removed.

That is how it started on Windows, too. Over time, the fake antivirus products became more sophisticated and more difficult to remove. The progression will be the same for Apple, I promise you.

That, again, is my point, from my standpoint, as a user, it's more intuitive to use on a daily basis. My parents, in their 70's aren't going to know how to download and run registry cleaners, and all the other software on download.com to get their system working. However, they can easily do the 9 steps above and be done.

When the virus' plaque happens, we'll talk about it. For now, it's just not there. It's laughable that people argue this case because there "may" be something coming. When you compare whats currently out there on the PC and what's currently out there on the Mac, there is zero evidence to suggest that your chances of getting malware or a virus is greater than on the PC. Not today, not yesterday, and not tomorrow. 5 years from now? Probably not either. Again, if I have to pick one that's got 5 known issues or one that's got 1,000,000 known issues, I know which one I'll pick.

I could not disagree more. I'm not saying something "may" be coming. It has started. It isn't a matter of whether it is coming, it is here. It will build until it gets as bad for Mac as it is for Windows. And it will happen faster than you think.

[John Coloccia]

I've been hearing about the pending Linux/Mac virus plague for years. When my Mac and Linux machines start giving me as much trouble as my PC's used to, I'll consider switching back. Until then, I see no reason whatsoever to even consider any arguments to the contrary as they have all been proven wrong time after time and year after year. It's just a bunch of PC apologists attempting to make their platform look better by making other platforms look worse. A better approach would be for Windows to stop with the bloody updates and spend a good 10 years perfecting their flagship product, much as they had done with Windows NT.

Mac and Linux are secure NOT because of lack of interest (although that is part of it). They are secure because the underlying OS is extremely well understood after 40 years of experience. Windows is NOT well understood by anyone. It is far too complicated, and there are far too many hooks into the guts. Unix based operating systems are relatively lightweight and consequently are far easier to protect from serious attacks.

When I'm developing on a Unix like system, I spend much of my time simply writing code and getting my job done. Even GUI interaction is quite disconnected from the OS itself. On a Windows system, I spend much of my time playing with Windows APIs. Windows is like the IRS. It's involved in everything you do. Every interaction is one more opportunity for me to exploit a flaw. As a developer, it's far easier to design for Windows than it is to design for any other system, but as a malicious hacker, it's low hanging fruit.

The only effective way I had for locking down my development PC at work was to simply NOT use it to ever ever ever read e-mail or do any web surfing other than what I strictly had to do to download various patches and things of that nature. Even so, I would occasionally type something in wrong and cause problems for myself. To date, I have had exactly ZERO problems with any Mac, Linux or Unix platform I have ever used, without ANY special rules or maintenance in spite of the constant doomsday predictions. It may happen, but I don't think it really will ever happen...at least not for a very long time.

re: Malware
Yes, there will always be Trojans. The difference is that they don't embed themselves so deeply into the OS that they're practically impossible to remove by ordinary means. Mac antivirus steps degenerate into "drag the file into the trash". I routinely see PC's trashed to the point that it's easier to simply rebuild them than to try and fix them. The usual retort is "well, if the user would just do this or that, then they wouldn't have a problem". My usual answer is that I don't expect my vehicle to require maintenance every time it rains or every time a pebble gets stuck in the tire. It should be designed to handle the common, everyday dangers of being a vehicle. Operating systems should be designed to handle the common, everyday dangers of being an OS. Adware, Malware and other malicious software is common, everyday stuff and should require no special effort on the part of the user to keep from being crippled.

All that said, I wouldn't switch from one platform to another just based on this one issue. I had other reasons to dump the PC platform, some technical and some just out of curiosity. I can think of many advantages to the PC platform, especially as it concerns businesses. As a business, I can afford an IT guy who's sole job it is to secure my entire infrastructure and lock things down to the point that nothing gets in or out that shouldn't.

[Phil Thien]

I've been hearing about the pending Linux/Mac virus plague for years. When my Mac and Linux machines start giving me as much trouble as my PC's used to, I'll consider switching back. Until then, I see no reason whatsoever to even consider any arguments to the contrary as they have all been proven wrong time after time and year after year.

Again, this is no longer a matter of if or when. It HAS started. People have been infected, on a Mac, with as many as six variants (so far) of a fake anti-virus scam. At first, a password was required. Newer versions no longer require a password.

It's just a bunch of PC apologists attempting to make their platform look better by making other platforms look worse. A better approach would be for Windows to stop with the bloody updates and spend a good 10 years perfecting their flagship product, much as they had done with Windows NT.

I probably own more Macs than most people (I have four, I use two daily). I also use two PC's daily.

Mac and Linux are secure NOT because of lack of interest (although that is part of it). They are secure because the underlying OS is extremely well understood after 40 years of experience.

Malware typically attacks via application vulnerabilities (browser or PDF viewer, for example).

Windows is NOT well understood by anyone. It is far too complicated, and there are far too many hooks into the guts. Unix based operating systems are relatively lightweight and consequently are far easier to protect from serious attacks.

Being well understood is a double-edge sword.

Also, this:
http://misterreiner.wordpress.com/20...dows-security/

When I'm developing on a Unix like system, I spend much of my time simply writing code and getting my job done. Even GUI interaction is quite disconnected from the OS itself. On a Windows system, I spend much of my time playing with Windows APIs. Windows is like the IRS. It's involved in everything you do. Every interaction is one more opportunity for me to exploit a flaw. As a developer, it's far easier to design for Windows than it is to design for any other system, but as a malicious hacker, it's low hanging fruit.

I'm not sure if you're saying it is easier to develop for Windows or *ix systems. Coding for Windows is certainly easier (and more portable) if you need GUI. But most of my stuff is command-line, so it is moot.

The only effective way I had for locking down my development PC at work was to simply NOT use it to ever ever ever read e-mail or do any web surfing other than what I strictly had to do to download various patches and things of that nature. Even so, I would occasionally type something in wrong and cause problems for myself. To date, I have had exactly ZERO problems with any Mac, Linux or Unix platform I have ever used, without ANY special rules or maintenance in spite of the constant doomsday predictions. It may happen, but I don't think it really will ever happen...at least not for a very long time.

Well, Apple didn't write that bulletin for their site because it isn't happening.

re: Malware
Yes, there will always be Trojans. The difference is that they don't embed themselves so deeply into the OS that they're practically impossible to remove by ordinary means. Mac antivirus steps degenerate into "drag the file into the trash". I routinely see PC's trashed to the point that it's easier to simply rebuild them than to try and fix them. The usual retort is "well, if the user would just do this or that, then they wouldn't have a problem". My usual answer is that I don't expect my vehicle to require maintenance every time it rains or every time a pebble gets stuck in the tire. It should be designed to handle the common, everyday dangers of being a vehicle. Operating systems should be designed to handle the common, everyday dangers of being an OS. Adware, Malware and other malicious software is common, everyday stuff and should require no special effort on the part of the user to keep from being crippled.

Most people are unaware of the security vulnerabilities in OS X because they haven't been exploited. Once they start getting exploited, users will become far more familiar with them.

All that said, I wouldn't switch from one platform to another just based on this one issue. I had other reasons to dump the PC platform, some technical and some just out of curiosity. I can think of many advantages to the PC platform, especially as it concerns businesses. As a business, I can afford an IT guy who's sole job it is to secure my entire infrastructure and lock things down to the point that nothing gets in or out that shouldn't.

I'm not advocating anyone switch. I use two Macs daily. And two PC's daily. I'm not switching.

My entire point here is that Mac users are no longer safe from the fake anti-virus crap that has been plaguing the PC for years now. The first crop have arrived. More are on the way.

I might even be adding a new Mac soon, as I have acquired a new (used) video camera that is HD, and I'd like a little more muscle for editing video.

But I will do so with my eyes wide open, knowing that these types of viruses may become more of a nuisance over time.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm not saying something "may" be coming. It has started. It isn't a matter of whether it is coming, it is here. It will build until it gets as bad for Mac as it is for Windows. And it will happen faster than you think.

So if I understand the logic right, if you have a boat with 100 holes in it and you have to spend your time bailing water out day after day, or, you could get a new boat with 1 hole in it, you'd keep the one with the 100 holes in it because the one with 1 hole will be getting more holes some time in the future, maybe?

I'll take the boat with 1 hole and worry about the other holes when they come to light. If you're really worried about MacDefender or MacGuard, run an anti-virus program on the Mac. They are readily available.

And you're assuming that all these issues are happening on the admin account. If the users aren't admin status, none of them are getting through.

[Larry Frank]

This is another lightning rod topic and one that there is no clear answer.

If it were me, I would base it on how I use the computer and how I need to work with other people around me using computers. In my workplace, everyone is using a PC and not Macs. The industrial hardware in the plant is set up to interface with a PC and the cost structure for the PC is lower.

I do not think there is anything inherently wrong with a Mac but it just does not fit my needs.

One other comment - I am very careful with my computer and avoid activities that would allow a virus or malware and I run frequent backups. I think that many people end up with problems on their systems because of what they download, sites they visit, emails that they open, etc. If you open the door, they will come in and you will have problems.