Heat press

[Keith Outten]

Scott is right and I probably should remind everyone that I don't do any non-commercial work. Almost of my customers these days are large construction contractors and the fee structure is considerably different than working the retail side of the business. Jobs are for the most part larger and there is more variety in the kinds of work required with the exception of ADA door signs which represents the bulk of my workload.

Yesterday I ordered a Ricoh printer to give it a try and see how well it will perform, based on Larry's evaluation I expect it will be perfect for the job I have in mind. I have been considering a small format printer to use to make chemical warning signs for commercial buildings. Dye-sub is just the ticket when lots of colors are required. Periodically I also give T-shirts and other specialty types of items away to the movers and shakers I work with, the Ricoh should be just the ticket for these types of jobs.
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[Martin Boekers]

Keith,

You'll be pleasantly surprised with the Ricoh,

I fought Epson printers for years and was ready to through them out the window
and give up on dye sub. Now a day doesn't go by that I don't use it.

[Martin Boekers]

No coating required.

It's not an extremely practical thing to do. As Keith mentioned, he's getting 20 minutes in the press. That means the meter is running the entire time. You have to be getting some really good money for anything to stay in a heat press for 20 minutes, then cooling, clamped down for another 20 or so.

Yes, it can be done, yes, there are ways to make money with it, but in my opinion, it's not very commercial in it's use.

It doesn't cleanly sublimate either, and a paper transfer in a heat press for 20 minutes isn't ideal and you can run into all kinds of issues with the paper fusing into the material too.

Again, it can be done, there are ways to make money, but there are tons of other things you can dye sub that look better and yield much higher returns. The colors don't "pop" on corian like that do on other things. It takes color good, but not super bright like what dye sub is known for.

Just a heads up before anyone spends much time and money trying it out.

Scott,

do you use just the standard teflon cover sheet?
Does the slight texture of that show up?

Would it help to heat the Corain up to temp first and then
do the transfer?

[Larry Bratton]

Keith,

You'll be pleasantly surprised with the Ricoh,

I fought Epson printers for years and was ready to through them out the window
and give up on dye sub. Now a day doesn't go by that I don't use it.

Hehehe..I can't wait until I have something to do on it every day. I am still in awe at how well it works. It may break tomorrow but for now it's very cool.
My wife had a lunch to go to today, she came in this morning with a blue Vapor shirt she wanted to wear..15 minutes later she had a brightly colored red, green and blue parrot sublimated on it. It was a big hit at her luncheon.
Better watch out Keith, if Jackie sees what it will do you might be in the clothing business!

[Bill W. White]

I finally got the account open to buy corian at a decent price, thanks Keith . When I talked with supplier today and asked to buy a set of samples they said no charge and we will send them to you,,,how bout that...Now I'm ready to get into the ADA sign making business and get rich...My question is how is best way to market to the builders, I live between Jacksonville Fl and Orlando so there has to be a market out there somewhere. At one time in my glass business I got in the "Bluebook" and got many request for glass block installation bids, would something like this work for ADA signs....what else can I try Thanks Bill W.

[Keith Outten]

Bill,

From your local phone book you can get a list of all the general contractors in your area.
Make sample ADA door signs for each contractor with their logo, engrave your company information on the back of each sign and deliver them personally to the person in charge of their sub-contractors/bids and quotes department.

I would draft a letter that provides information about your company and the services you can provide. Make sure to highlight your strengths and the fact that you are offering Corian ADA signs which are more durable than acrylic, etc. Also explain why Corian is a superior product for exterior signs and that the cost of maintenance is near zero over the course of the signs life.

Tell them you can dye-sublimate Corian and take a sample with you when you visit their office.

Tell them that you can provide custom machining services like construction templates and fixtures.

Tell them you can thermally bend Corian and produce custom products for their buildings.

If you are just starting to make signs your company resume won't qualify for large multi-million dollar projects, let them know that you are willing to start with small jobs if necessary.

Let them know that you can produce products that none of their current sub-contractors are capable of providing.
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[Keith Outten]

I received my new Ricoh 3300 printer yesterday, hope to get it installed tonight
My first project is to make several coffee cups for a large company to break the ice for some upcoming ADA work.
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[Brad Knight]

Keith, quick question for you (and I'm sure you've answered this elsewhere but I haven't found it) on your ADA signs, do you use the balls, or do you route the dots with a rounded edge? I know you could route it, but it seems like the tool paths would take a bit more time.

Thanks...

[Keith Outten]

Brad,

Aaron Koehl created a script for Corel Draw that makes it easy to laser engrave braille on Corian plaques and then insert the acrylic braille spheres. You don't have to create tool paths if you use the laser, however it can be done with a CNC machine drilling the holes with a rotary engravers braille type router bit.
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[Bill W. White]

Couple more questions..first when heating the corian is there a material that is placed in heat press to protect it from corian. Once it's taken out of press and sandwiched between aluminum is there a need there for something in between ? If I make a mold to bend the corian to make the bases what is the best material. My laser is only 12x18" is this large enough for ADA signs..what is the normal size range. I was planning on using the cnc to make the holes is this less desirable than laser holes? Lastly maybe we need a corian ,ADA, sublimation mini camp just for the rookies..kinda like the NFL Also Keith thanks for the business plan excellent plan Bill W.

[Keith Outten]

Bill,

Assuming that your heat press has perfectly flat surfaces you shouldn't need anything special between the Corian and the heat press.

When you take Corian out of your heat press it is very soft, almost like a wet noodle. You need to make sure that you use a form that is very smooth so marks from the form are not transferred to the Corian surface. Aluminum plate is good for flat plaques and I use MDF to make custom forms because it is very smooth.

The most common size for ADA door signs is 8" by 6". I have seen some that are a bit larger but most try to keep the size smaller because of the cost of material. Customers who order hundreds of signs and Architectural firms understand that when you make the signs even a little bit larger the material costs go up significantly. Your 12" by 18" laser should be more than adequate, laser power is more important than size.

You can use a special rotary engraving router bit to drill braille holes, in fact they are the best way to produce braille because of the precision fit they provide. Using a laser engraver is a bit faster since you don't have to create a toolpath and then setup each door sign in a jig to machine it. The big problem is software, there doesn't seem to be a good CNC program that provides a fast and easy means of creating braille toolpaths. I have asked Aaron Koehl to come up with a software solution for my new CAMaster, he is in a Doctoral Program at William and Mary so I have no idea when he will be able to get this done.

Jackie and I have discussed the idea of producing an ADA video series, we decided not to because of the time required. A couple people here asked me to start an ADA group here, this is something we can do and I will try to get it done this weekend. I am willing to share every step of the process that I use to create ADA signs, each step has been improved over the years to the point that I have cut my time in half.

Jackie and I are considering hosting the second SawMill Creek Gathering and Swap-meet this October. If this happens and enough people are interested I would be glad to put together a mini-clinic that would show the process from beginning to end. In the past we organized more demonstrations and less lectures for those who attended our event. We will do the same thing this time with less emphasis on the tool drawings we did the last time. I seriously hope we can organize this gathering, I have a new APLazer and should have my Stinger tricked out by October so there will be much to see and do for everyone. Ours would be a two day event, several vendors have already offered to support us by providing demonstrations of their own.

Our home is in a rural area and we have six acres of space so there is plenty of room for campers if people prefer to bring them. We envision lots of cooking on the grill and that our event will go into the evening hours so a campfire will be part of the mix
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[Brad Knight]

Keith - thanks - my stinger should be here Thursday and your advice has been invaluable.

[Bill W. White]

Keith thanks so much for the help. I would think anyone who has sunk all the money into a cnc or laser would be interested in recouping some of the cost. It sure is an expensive toy but soooo much fun. I would love to come up for a clinic I have learned so much at the Aspire meetings and at Jim's Mcgrews as it really helps cut time off the learning curve. Bill W.

[Keith Outten]

The least expensive tool in my shop is the one that cost the most to purchase. This only makes sense when you consider that my CNC machines have paid for themselves very quickly, the more traditional tools are in a different category altogether. Assuming your goal is to make money or at the very least have a new machine pay for itself the return on investment for CNC machines can be faster than a drag race.

In all fairness the bottom line is marketing. You must be able to market your products and services no matter what your woodworking flavor. CNC machines are very cool and they are a lot of "fun to run" but sales is where its at when you need to pay your bills. In my case I am a horrible salesman on one hand but I can sell anything that I believe is a great product or service. I have been pumped up about CNC machines since I bought my ShopBot many years ago and I am still just as enthusiastic today. I have a demonstration scheduled this afternoon in my shop for a new customer, when he leaves my shop his head will be spinning...I guarantee it

Remember when you talk to prospective customers they will automatically pick up on your energy and excitement when you are pitching your services. Be upbeat and show enthusiasm in your voice rather than trying to hard sell your products. Let them know that you are innovative and your machines are capable of providing a wide variety of services when they need them. There is a whole lot more to working with contractors than just sign work. When they get in a jam, and they do, you will be there to help them with a solution when a situation requires custom machining. This approach gets you on "The Team" faster than anything I know. At some point in time a contractor may very well start being concerned about you working for their competitor and start looking for work for your company to keep you busy...it happens.

At CNU I just picked up a job in the sign shop to make Corian frames and doors for eighteen emergency gas valve shutoff access panels. This is the kind of thing that you never foresee happening when you get started making signs but it is a common occurrence. I have also made custom ceiling access panels, exterior light cover plates and custom Corian moldings for pizza ovens and a host of other weird products over the last few years that dropped in my lap when a contractor or Architect decided to "ask Keith" if he had any ideas when they got stuck and needed a custom solution to a problem.
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[Mike Null]

I've been using an Insta heat press for 13 years and have yet to have any issue with it. They cost more but are really an industrial piece of equipment. Mine happens to be pneumatic but they make very good manual models as well.

Look hard a swing-away rather than clam shell styles.