Interesting quote from FW's Roland Johnson

[David Kumm]

Frank, all my saws came through Chuck Hess. I should have acknowledged the importance of his expertise when I got started. The oliver 116, 217 and yates y20 are still on his website- hesswoodworks.com Dave

[Bill ThompsonNM]

If you have a Yates snowflake, you suck!

+1! Or +ONE! Since the software objects to my original less than
10 characters.....

[Bill ThompsonNM]

In summary , I think Roland Johnson, was perhaps being too flippant or at least not sufficiently communicative. He may have ended up with a better saw and saved some Old arn. Implying that new steel saws were inferior seems a stretch. For resaw capacity, for example, new saws have more capacity in a smaller saw-- easier tonmove, less $ new, are good attributes .

[David Kumm]

Bill, your points are correct about the best of the new steel saws, but they are priced accordingly. The mm16 or laguna 16hd are in the 2500-3000 range. I don't recall what he spent on his rehab but it is tougher to find a new saw in that price range that will compete. I think his response was to someone who thought a grizzly was a better choice for the money. In 20 or 30 years it will only be the best of the steel saws that survive. Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

I was just at a friend's shop this afternoon. He has a steel construction 18" thickness planer that he doesn't like to use because it is so much louder than a cast iron one. .

That is not always the case George. My SCM is quiet. You can stand next to it when it is running and have a conversation in normal tones. Planing it is louder of course, but not a lot until the knives get dull. At times I will not notice I left it on if the dust collector is still running, until I shut off the collector. It was $11,000 todays money, which still is cheap compared to the selling price of say an Oliver 199, dollars compensated. Like I said it is steel, but there is a lot of steel. The finish at 16fpm is as good as I have ever seen, and with the Tersa head it will plane birdeye without popping a single eye, something the old planers could not do.

[David Kumm]

Larry, Your planer with tersa knives is definitely at the top of the food chain. Did you buy it new? Machinery guys are telling me that the scmi's from the 80's and 90's are the hot ticket now that most of the oliver people are dying off. I have about 6k into my 299 with the ITCH and grinder but it takes some skill to grind those knives wheras your tersa system is plug and play. Dave

[Richard Shaefer]

Typically speaking, cast iron (or aluminum) is NOT STRONGER than steel. Garden variety cast irons are about 30 ksi in tensile strength, steels can bump 100k without breaking a sweat, esp. the newer thinner stuff. However, stiffness (not strength) is a geometric property and independant of strength. Castings are typically much thicker than weldments and are therefore inherently stiffer, and will deflect less than weldments. Add to this that anything that vibrates will benefit from the damping effect of mass, and cast iron is about the same density as steel (give or take).

[Wes Grass]

There are a number of precision metal working machines made from steel fabrications, rather than iron castings. Typically filled with concrete for vibration damping. They're stiffer, stronger, cheaper to make in small qty's, and are more stable. As for putting iron castings outside to 'season', that basically does nothing but make them rusty. They have to be thermally stress relieved to be stable. And for large parts, that's quite time consuming and energy intensive.

[Larry Edgerton]

Larry, Your planer with tersa knives is definitely at the top of the food chain. Did you buy it new? Machinery guys are telling me that the scmi's from the 80's and 90's are the hot ticket now that most of the oliver people are dying off. I have about 6k into my 299 with the ITCH and grinder but it takes some skill to grind those knives wheras your tersa system is plug and play. Dave

David

I bought new. I actually went to the Grand Rapids show with the intention of buying a Martin, had cash in my pocket and a truck in the parking lot. The salesman was rude. Guess he didn't want to sell to a guy with blue jeans. I walked across and paid cash for a SCM, and have not been sorry.

I read a while ago what a 299 cost new back in the day. It was expensive! Can't remember good enough to quote, but it seems like it was about 7 grand. In todays dollar that would be huge.

I like the Tersa head. It was a $2K option, and I am glad I have it, but..... I wish I had hung on to my Powermatic for roughing. They make carbides for the Tersa, and they switch fast, but I would rather have two!

[David Kumm]

Larry, Rich Fink sells new 299's for about 30k. I use mine as a rough planer and a delta dc33 with a byrd head for small finish work. I've had good luck with it although some haven't. Wes, I don't know much about the casting process or how it has changed. I just know it has. Like everything else, I suspect quality has something to do with the price people are willing to pay or how much profit the manufacturer wants to make. Good stuff is good stuff- cast iron or steel. I wish we as consumers were less addicted to price and more to quality. Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

I wish we as consumers were less addicted to price and more to quality. Dave

Somehow I don't think you or I are a part of that problem. Just guessing, but I'm just saying........

[David Kumm]

We probably contribute to some others. Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

Just goes to show how careful you need to be when you make an offhand comment

I'll vouch for the old Martin stuff. I'm at the tail end of the rebuild of a 69' Martin shaper.....it's not light The bearings (like everything else) are indeed massive, although unlike some of the previously mentioned machines only ABEC 5's. SCMI is also a good manufacturer though there is a noticeable jump. I have an older 20" SCM planer and have looked over many of their 110 and 130 shapers before buying the Martin. There are more than a few European manufacturers that make top notch machinery.

Another advantage (at least to me) of cast iron over steel is that cast iron is far easier to machine than steel hardened to a similar surface hardness. When your drilling for power feeds or any other accessories that's a big help.

good luck,
JeffD