Help me spend my money (vises)

[Jake Elkins]

Well, I've read all the workbench books over the past 4-5 years, and I have decided that it is probably now-or-never in terms of getting a workbench done. I have been milling wood for a 4in top (walnut, wood was nearly free), and I too really like the Roubo style. Overall dimensions will be approximately 8' x 28" and 35" high. Sure beats what I use now. I want the vises prior to completing the bench. I have used several, and I decided that I want either a wagon-vise or a twin-screw at the end position, and either a leg or twin-screw for the face position. In other words, traditional L-shaped end vises and shoulder vises are out.

Not wanting to build my vises for this bench, I decided a while ago that I would be purchasing. By depriving myself of a tool fund for a while, a nicer-than-average tax refund and a little bit of luck, I finally have the green light to buy the vises. Lets assume that I have a budget of 750$ (coincidentally the cost of the benchcrafted set). I was pretty near pulling the trigger on the benchcrafted set (wagon and leg), but I am intrigued enough by the Hovarter http://www.hovartercustomvise.com/ hardware to have some pause now. While I have heard/read absolutely nothing but wonderful things regarding the benchcrafted vises (wagon and leg), but I thought I would see if anyone has experience with both.

I am not sure how the poll feature works, but these are the options that I am considering:
1. Benchcrafted leg and wagon vise
2. Benchcrafted wagon and Hovarter twin-screw face vise
3. Benchcrafted wagon and Hovarter leg-vise
4. Hovarter twin screws at both end and face positions

These all work out to about the same price. I currently use a standard imported jorgenson face vise in the end position of my rudimentary bench. I clamp often between the dogs, but this vise does a poor job (lifts the boards up). I therefore hesitate a bit about putting anything but a wagon vice in the end-position, but I imagine that a stout bench and quality hardware could make all the difference. I am about 50-50 in terms of handtools vs power, but I see myself falling further down the slippery hand-tool slope. I enjoy joinery and cut quite a few dovetails. I am a little concerned about the twin-screws for such a thick bench top -- I really don't want to hog away at the bench but I don't want the thing to rack (will this be a problem??).

I appreciate the help. Thanks!

[James Baker SD]

I am currently building my dream Roubo with the Benchcrafted set. I also have a LV twin screw but it will go on a mini-bench to sit on top of the main bench to bring work up closer to eye level.

James

[Carl Beckett]

$.02

If the action of the Hovarter works smoothly, I would vote for it as the leg vise. I have a Benchcrafted leg vice and its a wonderful vice, but you do have to set the pin with each change in thickness and a design that doesnt need this would be convenient.

The twin screw vises seem a little overkill to me (its rare I need to hold something that simply clamping at one place wont hold). The way I think of it is that, if I am putting so much force on the piece that I need additional clamping power then I must be doing something wrong (wrong tool for the job, or more often something needs sharpening). Often times I can get by with a simple stop (either a raised dog or end stop, etc), without clamping the piece at all.

The Benchcraft wagon vice works as advertised.

I know its not what you asked - I do not have direct experience with both, only the Benchcrafted.

[Michael Peet]

Hi Jake,

You may be hard pressed to find many people with firsthand experience with both Benchcrafted and Hovarter vises. I just finished a Roubo with the Benchcrafted vises and so far they have worked very well. That's the only input I can give you.

I am curious about the Hovarter vises though, and am considering them for my next (what is wrong with me?) bench. They are still pretty new, and I imagine in a couple years we will have more data regarding the real-world function and longevity of them.

Mike

[Johnny Kleso]

Ask Jameel, I am sure he will give you his honest opinion..

[Matt Evans]

My one question on the Hovarters vises. . .

how does it tighten? Are the collets tapered to tighten the mechanism? The design looks handy, but I can't seem to wrap my head around the mechanism. . .

[Johnny Kleso]

I would ask if the white plastic bushing wear out on the Hovarter..

I thinking thats what locks shaft to the bench and over time will wear out..
But design looks very good..

[Steve Friedman]

It tool me a while, but finally figured out that Len Hovarter's leg vise is just his twin screw vise mounted vertically. I like it, but am not yet sold on the size of that front leg being so much bigger than the other three. Based on Chris' books and some e-mails from him, I am convinced that a leg vise is the way to go for the front.
I also recall someone here (or the woodworking forum) indicating that he is working on leg vise hardware that eliminates the need for the pin adjuster at the bottom. If it wan't for that adjuster, I would have bought the entire Benchcrafted kit already!

As for the tail, I haven't seen anything as nice as the Benchcrafted's wagon vise, but exchanged e-mails with Len Hovarter (who was very helpful), who said that he is working on a single screw version of his vise that could be ideal as a tail vise. I am concerned about a twin screw as a tail vise with dogs because all of the pressure would be on one side.

Am interested to know what you decide and why.

Steve

[David Weaver]

I am concerned about a twin screw as a tail vise with dogs because all of the pressure would be on one side.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I've been using a cheap sjoberg's bench with 100 pounds of bricks in the bottom for 5 years (as in one of the $500 benches, not one of the 300 pound elite series benches). The vise on it is, at best, 1/2 the strength of one of the good commercial offerings of normal vise types (not close to a vise where there are two actual screws), and I have used it with no problems at all. Of course, it racks, but there really isn't much you'd do with one dog where you want that much tension on a board, anyway. If you're planing something rough, and you pinch it that hard with dogs in the tail vise, it's going to bow and flat won't be flat as soon as you take the tension off the vise.

I just don't understand all of the excitement with expensive benches and vises.

[Ryan Stagg]

My one question on the Hovarters vises. . .

how does it tighten? Are the collets tapered to tighten the mechanism? The design looks handy, but I can't seem to wrap my head around the mechanism. . .

There are a wedge and a bridge in the rack-and-pinion assembly of the vise that are angled relative to the long vise axis - you snug the vise jaw against the work, and just turn the vise handle slightly - this moves the rack laterally. As the rack moves, the bridge cams against the wedge, moving it forward, which in turn bears down on the top half of the 'clutch' - a hardened metal disc that surrounds the vise shaft. The bearing force binds the clutch onto the shaft, pulling the whole shaft forward (closing the vise jaw) as the rack and bridge move laterally, so you get a small amount of clamping 'travel'.

Ingenious stuff. I'm ordering a wagon vise shortly for a Roubo under construction, I'll post a full report when I get it installed.