Safety safety safety........can't be stressed enough.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ray....from Wikipedia, here's the definition of IQ:

An intelligence quotient, or IQ, is a score derived from one of several different standardized tests designed to assess intelligence. The term "IQ" comes from the German Intelligenz-Quotient. When modern IQ tests are constructed the median score is set to 100 and a standard deviation to 15. Today almost all IQ tests adhere to the assignment of 15 IQ points to each standard deviation but this has not been the case historically. Approximately 95% of the population have scores within two standard deviations of the mean. If one SD is 15 points, then 95% of the population are within a range of 70 to 130.

If you notice, it says nothing about common sense, street smarts or the ability to operate machinery in a safe manner. It is just a score on a standardized test generally used to predict someone's capability to learn.

I will repeat myself....High IQ had nothing to do with this accident rather I would suggest that a lack of proper training in the safe operation of the machine, a lack of experience or a lack of self discipline to use the training the person may have had.

[ray hampton]

Ray....from Wikipedia, here's the definition of IQ:

An intelligence quotient, or IQ, is a score derived from one of several different standardized tests designed to assess intelligence. The term "IQ" comes from the German Intelligenz-Quotient. When modern IQ tests are constructed the median score is set to 100 and a standard deviation to 15. Today almost all IQ tests adhere to the assignment of 15 IQ points to each standard deviation but this has not been the case historically. Approximately 95% of the population have scores within two standard deviations of the mean. If one SD is 15 points, then 95% of the population are within a range of 70 to 130.

If you notice, it says nothing about common sense, street smarts or the ability to operate machinery in a safe manner. It is just a score on a standardized test to generally used to predict the ability of someone's capability to learn.

I will repeat myself....High IQ had nothing to do with this accident rather I would suggest that a lack of proper training in the safe operation of the machine, a lack of experience or a lack of self discipline to use the training the person may have had.

ken, you got your way of thinking and I got my way of thinking and I doubt that you are OLD enough to teach me different SO WILL YOU AGREE TO DIS AGREE

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ray,

I simply quoted the accepted definition of IQ. Age should not have anything to do with anything....learning or teaching....but for the record I have great-grandkids.

[ray hampton]

Ray,

I simply quoted the accepted definition of IQ. Age should not have anything to do with anything....learning or teaching....but for the record I have great-grandkids.

and that make you how old- 55 ?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I am a older than that Ray but age really doesn't have a lot to do with the topic at hand. We aren't talking about a seniority issue here.

We are discussing the fact a young lady was killed operating a machine and that everyone should be careful.

[Dan Hintz]

I find it amusing, Ray, that you're making a big deal out of Ken's age (somehow you're better because you're older? ), making jabs at his IQ, etc... yet you already admitted to putting your boss in a situation where he could have been killed by your actions. To what do you attribute this to in your case... lack of skill, lower-than-average IQ, young age, or some combination of the above?

[Chris Fournier]

You've just posted the second rude posting on this thread.

[ray hampton]

I find it amusing, Ray, that you're making a big deal out of Ken's age (somehow you're better because you're older? ), making jabs at his IQ, etc... yet you already admitted to putting your boss in a situation where he could have been killed by your actions. To what do you attribute this to in your case... lack of skill, lower-than-average IQ, young age, or some combination of the above?

do you know how you feel when you make a bad comment about someone and then turn around and they was standing behind you at the time, WELL I DO NOT know where KEN lived at , he could be my next door neighbor , I try to remember this when making any comments on this internet, I can not judge any one I Q so any comment will err on the high side, I made mistakes all of my life in one form or other due to my lack of experience but NOBODY GOT HURT YET except me, can you say that you never cause anyone to get hurt ?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ray,

In your own words...."due to my lack of experience".....and that's why this young lady died and frankly it had absolutely nothing with a high IQ.

Let's get back on topic folks.

[Roderick Gentry]

While I don't think it is directly related to IQ or class, etc... I am very self-taught. I taught myself rock-climbing and ice climbing at 12, and more recently went on my first sail in a very fast boat I had built without ever having had a lesson and only been sailing once or twice. I took a sheet of paper and outlined the various expected point of sail, etc... and drew up cheat notes. I really knew nothing about machine tools, but installed my own shop and taught myself to use the machine tools. And lots of other crazy stuff. I have had a few accidents but I like the challenge. It probably would be better to learn from others, but I enjoy the challenge of figuring stuff out. I learned a lot of dangerous stuff from books, later video. Youtube raises the bar, in the sense than one can see video on anything which makes it easier, but one can probably get deeply into trouble with that thinking also. While I have always respected manual workers, and had both machinists and Joiners in the family (died before I came along), society encourages the belief that these tasks are menial, and that well educated people should be in leadership or design roles, with the result that one could be lulled into the belief one should be able to do any of this stuff by reading a few books. There is the Darwin award concept, but just because you got killed doesn't mean you were stupid, it just makes the rest of people feel better to imagine it is so.

[Bruce Boone]

Experience with machine tools comes at a price. When I have new employees working, I need to be sure to keep a few boxes of Band-Aids around. It's amazing how often they can get hurt. They just don't have the same awareness of what can happen. As you do it for a long time, you learn what to watch out for and get hurt way less often. I've had many a close call with table saws, milling machines, drill presses, and lathes in the past. I imagine we can all relate some kind of close call we've had. Even things like sheet metal, belt sanders, pliers, and electric drills have all their own sets of things to be aware and careful of. These all go into your collective experience, and you know to watch out for next time. It doesn't take much to slip up and catch the sharp edge of a newly sheared piece of metal, or as the poor girl discovered, get some of your hair caught up in rotating equipment. Unfortunately, some of the penalties of slipping up are way more severe than others.

[Chris M Pyle]

Only someone older than you can teach you something?

Interesting thought

[Shawn Pixley]

The OP's post centered around a tragic accident. I believe his hope was to reinforce our awareness that some of the tasks we do are inherently dangerous and we should not be complacent. I fully support that thinking.

Where we got sideways was the unsupported statement that this was increasingly prevalent with high IQ individuals. I don't see evidence to support that statement.

As other have said well is, the training the individual has had relative to the task they are performing is the more relevant factor. I supect all of us have made a mistake with a tool that injured us in a small way (hitting thumb with hammer, pinching finger with pliers, etc..). Additionally some of us have made big mistakes that where we managed not to get hurt (mine was taking a smaller boat out in an ocean that turned stormy).

My conclusions:

IQ = small factor, and potentially tangential to the central discussion
Training, preparedness, and supervision = vital to prevent accidents such as the one listed
Awareness of the danger = hidden factor that even those of us that have been doing dangerous tasks for a long time can lose sight of and become complacent.

That is my interpretation of the OP's message. Now back to your regular programming...

[Dan Hintz]

I supect all of us have made a mistake with a tool that injured us in a small way (hitting thumb with hammer, pinching finger with pliers, etc..).

Never... not even once.





Now if you all will excuse me, I need to go replenish my iodine, thread, gauze, and bandage supply.

[Matt Ranum]

The OP's post centered around a tragic accident. I believe his hope was to reinforce our awareness that some of the tasks we do are inherently dangerous and we should not be complacent. I fully support that thinking.


That is my interpretation of the OP's message. Now back to your regular programming...

...and that was exactly my point in posting the article. Safety comes not only from protective guards but from respecting the equipment one is using whether its a lathe, razor sharp bench chisel or a 50,000lb excavator. Accidents happen in the blink of an eye and if you get careless for an instant or are not all that experienced with what your using you can inadvertently set the process in motion.

I hope that this young woman was familiar and had the necessary training, but in the end she died using the tool. I trust those in charge are reviewing the way they do things to prevent this from ever happening again.