Advice on buying a new desktop laser engraver

[Michael Conley]

I'll jump on the band wagon..........this is a disaster waiting to happen.

IMHO.....you'll be out of business and likely out on the street (or atleast not living in you current apartment complex) in less than a year.

You can't run a profitable business with only a laser engraver.....especially out of an apartment.....especially supporting two employees........especially by engraving photos.

Just trying to save you $10 or $20 grand before you make a huge mistake..........

Thanks for your concern but I am pretty sure that I will not be out on the street any time soon, although we will be out of this apartment in September.

I make a reasonably comfortable living as a programmer and my wife does not currently work, so the laser will not be supporting two employees. As for your comment about engraving photos, that's one of the things that we enjoy doing. I think of it as a hobby that will eventually pay for itself - anything more will be gravy.

[Rodne Gold]

Expensive "hobby" , however no more expensive than cars, photography, high end Hifi etc.
The problem with treating this as a hobby is that you really need to maintain your investment in the machinery in terms of resale. I can look at my machinery in a different way, in that its merely a production tool and resale is irrelevant , I actually would rather destroy or dump my machinery than sell it on , I do this to stop others from entering the market cheaply. In your case , you really need to buy the rolls royce of lasers as if it doesnt bring you a good income stream , you can recover a good chunk of what you spent. But like a car , it might be worthwhile looking for a late model used machine with a warrantee - perhaps a trade in etc - the first owner will have taken the big hit in terms of drop in value.

[Michael Conley]

Expensive "hobby" , however no more expensive than cars, photography, high end Hifi etc.
The problem with treating this as a hobby is that you really need to maintain your investment in the machinery in terms of resale. I can look at my machinery in a different way, in that its merely a production tool and resale is irrelevant , I actually would rather destroy or dump my machinery than sell it on , I do this to stop others from entering the market cheaply. In your case , you really need to buy the rolls royce of lasers as if it doesnt bring you a good income stream , you can recover a good chunk of what you spent. But like a car , it might be worthwhile looking for a late model used machine with a warrantee - perhaps a trade in etc - the first owner will have taken the big hit in terms of drop in value.

Rodney, thank you for that advice and I have considered purchasing a larger used machine. I have read previous threads in which you have expressed some concern over people like me entering the business on the cheap and then competing by selling their products at unsustainably low prices. Let me first say that I have no desire to operate a high volume, low price business out of my home. If I were planning a larger operation, then I would definitely be looking closely at used lasers with more power and a larger engravable area but a larger machine is not just practicable for me at this time.

I leased my first machine and placed myself in a position where I was under constant pressure to generate income to cover my costs and I do not plan to put myself into that position again. On the other hand, I need a small, quiet and reliable system that will not require more time than I have available for set-up and maintenance. That is why I considered but ruled out systems like the Chinese Rabbit models. The total cost for the systems that I am actively considering is $10-12,000, including a filtration system.

I will probably take another look at the used market before I make a final decision but the cost of new lasers like the Rayjet and Zing models has dropped fairly quickly since their introduction, so people who have owned them only a year or two tend to have some unreasonable ideas of their resale value.

A secondary reason for buying a laser is that I develop web applications for a living and worked as a professional engineer for 20 years prior to switching careers. The laser engraving business/hobby will give me an incentive to develop some programming skills outside of those that I use at work. For example, although I have worked exclusively as an application developer for 10 years, I have no experience with commercial websites that employ a shopping cart feature.

If I had never operated a laser engraver in the past, then I would have been more concerned with the novelty wearing off and the machine collecting dust. If the laser ends up bing relegated to being used as a tool for other hobbies, then it should last many years with minimal additional investments.

Again, thank you for your thoughtful advice. Your posts here have provided me with a wealth of information even before I decided to request advice.

[andrew zen]

Hi Mike:

I am an optimist, a programmer, and a guy who inherited a laser for payment for a software debt.

I put my Epilog 24EX in my office so I could program while it was cutting. I would look for flames and have my CO2 extinguisher or co2 air pistol tank (with hose to blow up bicycle tires) to deal with flare ups.

I was in an office building.

I worked after 7 pm to not get office neighbors to complain. I had the 2 HP harbor freight dust collector (got on sale - everything is on sale at HF sometime)


My office smelled like acrylic even with direct venting to window with a huge blower on a 20 Amp circuit.

I want you to have this business, but working in the smell sucked big time.

Working with the smell reminds of a girlfriend who worked in the perfume section of Macy's and how she had to take showers just to go out after work.

Living with the odor is something where I hope you have very close friends. Oh and that stuff sticks in carpet.

I know you have financial constraints, but you will have to take a plunge for 400sqft of office/warehouse to start this business if you don't have a garage.

Maybe you lose money at first, but you seem to have the passion. There are other profession with less constraints; like software contracting


But you seem smart and Fabreeze is cheap at Costco.

Maybe, pick up coffee roasting as that smell could over power the others.

[David Fairfield]

Just to follow up on the points about maintaining your gear and buying a used machine-- having worked with an Epilog since 2006, I would have no problem in buying a used one, or any of the USA made ones, if all indicators were the previous owner maintained it according to the manual. They are very easy to maintain, too. Basically you just keep it clean and greased, and avoid doing anything stupid while its running. :-)

Dave

[Michael Conley]

Dave, the most money that I will lose on this venture is well under $10,000. I intend to purchase a small laser with a modest cfm requirement (my last blower was a 3 or 3-1/2 HP model and it sounded like a jet engine). Largely in response to some very negative comments here, I will be buying a fume extractor and limiting (or avoiding altogether) my use of acrylic and wood.

There is no way that I could operate a full size laser in my apartment but I am confident that I can manage the noise and odor produced by a Rayjet or Zing 16 and avoid burning down my building. If I can't, then I might as well burn my engineering degree.

I have no intention of operating a laser engraving business full time - I love my day job. Even if things go well, it is unlikely that my wife will be running the laser more than 4 or 5 house a day.

[Dee Gallo]

Mike,

I started out with a used Epilog which was a real dinosaur but it performed well and being very cheap, it paid for itself in 4 months. At the time, it was just fun and games for me but has evolved into a real money maker for me. I have since bought another used and a new laser. I applaud your enthusiasm and hope it all works out for you!

BTW- I exhaust outside into a blueboard insulated Rubbermaid box which holds my blower and keeps the critters and rain out. It's very quiet in my studio (I can barely hear it) and there is NO smell in my studio from burning wood or plastic although if the blower was not on, there would be (you can smell it when you open the lid). My studio is right in my home, so it can be done.

cheers, dee

[Michael Conley]

Thanks to everybody who provided so much helpful advice both in this thread and in similar ones. After doing quite a bit of research, my wife and I decided to order an Epilog Mini 18 yesterday. I have also ordered a Salon TC-60 compressor for the air assist and will be ordering a Quatro fume extractor and a fire extinguisher today. We had already bought a new network printer, digital camera, and scanner for use with the laser.

To minimize potential noise issues, I plan to buy or build a cabinet for the compressor and fume extractor and then surround it with acoustic blankets. i haven't decided whether to make the cabinet large enough to support the laser itself or use a separate stand, but everything will rest on a thick rubber mat to minimize the transmission of vibrations to the floor and to provide an additional noise barrier. I may also have to use some additional noise absorbing material near the laser to muffle sounds traveling upward through the ceiling.

BTW, I had initially decided to buy a Trotec Rayjet but the Trotec sales representative never responded to my request for a written quotation. The reps for Epilog and Universal were, in contrast, extremely prompt and courteous in responding to our requests for information and pricing. So, instead of getting a 30 watt Rayjet, we are getting a faster, more powerful machine from Epilog.

[Larry Bratton]

Good luck Mike and enjoy your new Epilog. You made a good choice. You did your due diligence well and it will pay off for you.

[Matt Root]

how did this pan out haha??

[Bert Kemp]

WOW! Matt brought this old old old thread to the front of the line and I read the whole thread never looking at the date and now I too and wondering what happened how did it go in the end up???

[Kevin Gregerson]

Dave, the most money that I will lose on this venture is well under $10,000. I intend to purchase a small laser with a modest cfm requirement (my last blower was a 3 or 3-1/2 HP model and it sounded like a jet engine). Largely in response to some very negative comments here, I will be buying a fume extractor and limiting (or avoiding altogether) my use of acrylic and wood.

There is no way that I could operate a full size laser in my apartment but I am confident that I can manage the noise and odor produced by a Rayjet or Zing 16 and avoid burning down my building. If I can't, then I might as well burn my engineering degree.

I have no intention of operating a laser engraving business full time - I love my day job. Even if things go well, it is unlikely that my wife will be running the laser more than 4 or 5 house a day.

Hey Dave, I have plenty of customers who are doing what you are doing. They bring the laser processing in-house and use it for multiple things. Including engineers who basically have a machine shop in their condo. Though, if you get into really high quality stuff you will likely spend more than your budget as a heads up. Most people usually spend around 12k-15k to get into that level of business. Used universal laser systems are likely a better way to go for you.

This one on ebay even though it isn't my own looks pretty ideal for your needs especially considering it already comes with the HPDFO optic which in itself is a 1600 dollar optic. Likely that it does need a refurbishing though. But I can sell you the parts for that.

ebay com/itm/Universal-Laser-Systems-VLS2-30-25-watt-Laser-Excellent-Condition-/141395169052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ebcf 0f1c#viTabs_0[/url]