Members please note- disallowed links.

[Chuck Saunders]

Hi Mark,
The point that I see is the the TOS does not say explicitly that links to e-bay are not permitted. As a result, in good faith a user checks the TOS and finds the section on posting links to be vague and ambiguous but understands the underlying theme to be use your best judgement. The user should not have to search up these recurring threads to find the refinements to the TOS. As a result the user posts their link and the moderator informs them "however gently" that they should not have posted the link. Surprised that they have not understood the TOS they reread and find that they don't see the error of their ways. So they ask the question and start a new thread. The responce that comes back is a very clear statement of what cannot be linked along with an admission that the TOS is vague and a statement that the TOS is the result of the wishes of the majority at the time of instatement. To me it seems that the TOS would benifit from being clarified, and the TOS is not strictly a Mandate from on high, but reflects the intentions of the community and can bear the weight of discussion. None of this takes away the sovereignty of the SMC owners. I am more confused about the manufacturers forums but that is another subject.
Thanks for listening
Chuck

[Mark Rios]

You're right Chick, that's the one point that, If I was going to question, I would question; Why the TOS aren't clarified on this point or changed to include a specific point about Ebay. However, I really don't care about whether a change occurs or not. Since I have read umpteen threads with posts from the admins and mods stating over and over that direct links to Ebay are not permitted, then I know not to do it. I don't care why. It doesn't harm me nor inconvenience me. I know good and well that at least most of the people here in the Creek are smarter than I am and can infer the jist of what the admins want. I see no point in wasting the admins and mods time with the disagreement. The issue HAS been clarified, if not in the TOS then CERTAINLY in the many, many posts on the subject. Let it go and just don't do it. If you still want to and do, then don't complain when the post gets modified or deleted.


By this time, with all the posts on the subject, even my dogs know not to make direct links to Ebay.

Hi Mark,
The point that I see is the the TOS does not say explicitly that links to e-bay are not permitted. As a result, in good faith a user checks the TOS and finds the section on posting links to be vague and ambiguous but understands the underlying theme to be use your best judgement. The user should not have to search up these recurring threads to find the refinements to the TOS. As a result the user posts their link and the moderator informs them "however gently" that they should not have posted the link. Surprised that they have not understood the TOS they reread and find that they don't see the error of their ways. So they ask the question and start a new thread. The responce that comes back is a very clear statement of what cannot be linked along with an admission that the TOS is vague and a statement that the TOS is the result of the wishes of the majority at the time of instatement. To me it seems that the TOS would benifit from being clarified, and the TOS is not strictly a Mandate from on high, but reflects the intentions of the community and can bear the weight of discussion. None of this takes away the sovereignty of the SMC owners. I am more confused about the manufacturers forums but that is another subject.
Thanks for listening
Chuck

[Lee DeRaud]

You're right Chick, that's the one point that, If I was going to question, I would question; Why the TOS aren't clarified on this point or changed to include a specific point about Ebay. However, I really don't care about whether a change occurs or not. Since I have read umpteen threads with posts from the admins and mods stating over and over that direct links to Ebay are not permitted, then I know not to do it. I don't care why. It doesn't harm me nor inconvenience me. I know good and well that at least most of the people here in the Creek are smarter than I am and can infer the jist of what the admins want. I see no point in wasting the admins and mods time with the disagreement. The issue HAS been clarified, if not in the TOS then CERTAINLY in the many, many posts on the subject. Let it go and just don't do it. If you still want to and do, then don't complain when the post gets modified or deleted.

Mark, you have a two-year head start over Chuck dealing with this subject, so of course you have read "umpteen threads with posts from the admins and mods", but he hasn't. Cut him some slack.

But maybe you can answer this question: if it's that big a deal, why hasn't the TOS just been freakin' updated instead of going through this mickey-mouse sticky-post "clarification" nonsense? By definition, the TOS is where the new members go to find out the "rules of the road"...in fact, they're told to read it when they sign up. Why make them go on a scavenger hunt to find all the amendments that have been made since the TOS was created?

[Mark Rios]

Touche' Lee. Please don't hurt me.



To answer your question....I don't know. That's the exact same thing that I asked, my friend. Twice. I just don't care if there is an answer. I know what they want and that's it.

Incidentally, or maybe not so incidentally, depending on your feelings, my opinions aren't directed at anyone in particular. Especially not Chuck. I was just responding to his question but not AT him so, if he felt that then I apologize to him. Chuck, you are my best friend in this thread. And Lee, you are my second best friend in this thread.

Mark, you have a two-year head start over Chuck dealing with this subject, so of course you have read "umpteen threads with posts from the admins and mods", but he hasn't. Cut him some slack.

But maybe you can answer this question: if it's that big a deal, why hasn't the TOS just been freakin' updated instead of going through this mickey-mouse sticky-post "clarification" nonsense? By definition, the TOS is where the new members go to find out the "rules of the road"...in fact, they're told to read it when they sign up. Why make them go on a scavenger hunt to find all the amendments that have been made since the TOS was created?

[Curt Harms]

Mark, you have a two-year head start over Chuck dealing with this subject, so of course you have read "umpteen threads with posts from the admins and mods", but he hasn't. Cut him some slack.

But maybe you can answer this question: if it's that big a deal, why hasn't the TOS just been freakin' updated instead of going through this mickey-mouse sticky-post "clarification" nonsense? By definition, the TOS is where the new members go to find out the "rules of the road"...in fact, they're told to read it when they sign up. Why make them go on a scavenger hunt to find all the amendments that have been made since the TOS was created?

It doesn't seem like too big a job to state in unequivocal terms in the TOS that certain direct links are not permitted. Once a poster is clear on that, it should require little imagination to post a non-direct link as has been mentioned previously. For example, would posting an ebay link without the http or www portion be acceptable? No need for a tempest in a teacup, placid creek waters are more enjoyable.


Curt

[Randy Meijer]

Another "tempest in a teapot" or whatever the saying is!!!

There is a very simple solution to this problem that satisfies both sides.

Simply post the eBay auction number in your thread.

Those who want to look at the auction can "COPY" the number and search for it directly on eBay.

With such a simple alternative available, it seems like a terrible waste of time to debate this policy?

[Matt Meiser]

With such a simple alternative available, it seems like a terrible waste of time to debate this policy?

Then Ken won't get a chance to step in and say that this is the rule...yada, yada, yada...I'm locking this thread.

Cue Ken....

[Lee DeRaud]

With such a simple alternative available, it seems like a terrible waste of time to debate this policy?

It would indeed be a terrible waste of time to debate this policy.

But as near as I can tell, nobody here is debating the policy. In fact what some of us are asking for is that this policy be formally codified in the TOS where new (and old) members will see it so this question doesn't keep coming up again...and again...and again...and again.

[Keith Outten]

It is my fault that the TOS hasn't been updated properly. My personal schedule this last year (two jobs) combined with the problems we have had to deal with since our move from HRO to my shop office have been about all I could deal with. Many issues that needed attention were moved to the back burner as we had to deal with one problem after another...like the recent IP Address issue, hardware problems three months ago, etc.

When Aaron was swamped with work at William and Mary last fall he was unable to attend to his duties here for a short time and several of us had to take up the slack which we did as best we could. The overtime Aaron was working made it impossible for him to visit the Creek and he had very little time to perform the adminstrative duties on the server itself. In recent weeks Aaron has purchased his first home, this is something we all know can be very time consuming and requires a lot of personal time.

These kinds of things happen to us all, life is often a bumpy road with lots of zigs and zags we must all deal with. When it happens to Aaron or myself it is more visible here at SMC because of our responsibilities here but we both know when things need immediate attention and understand that some things can wait.

As in nature "The Creek" is able to deal with inclement weather and the Storms of Life with the help from over 8.000 caring guardians. Aaron and I will catch up sometime soon, in the meantime our inability to perform certain functions are just a minor ripple in the water that are of no serious concern.

I am very pleased to announce that the new $29,000,000.00 Student Union at Christopher Newport University, which I have been the Project Inspector for the last 2.5 years, will be turned over to the customer next Monday July 17th. I have fullfilled my obligation to CNU thoughout the construction of Potomac River Residence Hall and the new Student Union.

My life will be much less hectic in just one more week

[Matt Meiser]

I am very pleased to announce that the new $29,000,000.00 Student Union at Christopher Newport University, which I have been the Project Inspector for the last 2.5 years, will be turned over to the customer next Monday July 17th. I have fullfilled my obligation to CNU thoughout the construction of Potomac River Residence Hall and the new Student Union.

My life will be much less hectic in just one more week

Sounds like a gloat to me. But...no pictures--didn't happen!

[Keith Outten]

Sounds like a gloat to me. But...no pictures--didn't happen!

Pictures are on the way. I have taken over 2000 pictures thoughout the construction of the bulding so I have a record of each phase of the project. The Student Union is trimmed to the nines, the millwork is especially beautifull and I have gained new respect for the woodworking craftsmen who are able to work at this quality level. All of the trim is solid cherry with large columns, arches, handrails and solid panel walls. For a woodworker this building has eye-candy everywhere you look. The cherry scraps from just the trim work would fill up several large dumpsters, it is heartbreaking to see so much cherry thrown away. I must have brought home enough small scrap pieces to make 10,000 pens, I don't have any more storage space to keep any more.

There isn't a web site for the construction of the project so I will have to post pictures here at the Creek so there won't be any links that violate our TOS

[Jason Roehl]

There isn't a web site for the construction of the project so I will have to post pictures here at the Creek so there won't be any links that violate our TOS

That's a bit of a stretch to bring your post back on topic, but we'll let it slide...

Congrats on the (almost) completion of the project! Have a beer or three! As long as behind the scenes SMC isn't a house of cards about to collapse, it looks like it's running just fine to me. If you guys need anything, just ASK.

[Keith Outten]

Thanks Jason,

SMC is alive and well right now, it appears that Aaron has everything flowing perfectly, a collapse would be a real surprise but anything is possible when computers are involved. Now that the water is smooth again Aaron and I need to get back to the task of putting together a new server.

Tuesday evening is a time for celebration.

[Mark Rios]

.............Tuesday evening is a time for celebration.

But............today is Wednesday.

[Ken Salisbury]

The admins and mods are NOT out to get us.

Sometimes just a few words say it all.