ha ha, okay you got me there! lolOriginally Posted by keith micinski
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ha ha, okay you got me there! lol
Contributor
Correct me....if I'm wrong.........
with the "bypass" capability....doesn't that give the operator the choice of having SS or not having SS?
Geee....Gass agrees with me as long as I buy his saw!
I think we ought to petition the CPSC to force Gass to recall all of his saws....and change all future saws removing the "Bypass" mode as one could get injured in that mode....seems like the moral thing to do. And to make sure that the consumer doesn't fail to perform the modification properly, let SS pay for the shipping...the change and the return.......
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
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No trick photography, normal speed...the hotdog is moving at the speed I would cut a piece of 3/4" plywood. I know this because, if I had not chickened out, I could have been the guy doing the cut demo two years ago at Woodwerks in Columbus, OH. I stood right beside the guy who did the demo and watched it with my own eyes. If anything, he moved the 3/4 ply faster than I might have. The the skin of the hotdog was nicked and just barely into the meat. The cut was the width of the sawblade, about 1/16" deep. I have scraped myself pushing a screwdriver into my hand (I know, dumb move, but we all do it once) and made more of a cut than was made on this hotdog.
No relationship with SawStop except being a VERY satisfied owner. Even disregarding the safety aspect of the SawStop, this saw (the 3hp cabinet version) is outstanding in every way. My only complaint is that it holds too much stuff on the top. I have to move a ton of "put it away tomorrow" stuff every time I need to make a cut!
I won't get into the unscrupulous business part because I have no basis to comment, but I do know that SawStop offers something that no other saw offers for only a small premium over similar quality saws. My fingers are worth the few extra dollars. Money well spent in my humble opinion.
"God does not deduct from a man's lifespan the time spent fishing."
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It sounds like the popular assumption is that Gass developed the brake because he wanted to make lots of money. The truth of the matter is quite a bit different. If Gass is to be believed (and I have no reason to doubt what he says) the motivation for developing something to make a table saw came from an from his father catching his hand in his table saw. Gass spent 5 or 6 years developing and perfecting the brake system. He tried to interest saw manufacturers in it to no avail. I have no idea how much money he had invested in the development but am sure it was more than most of us could come up with. His next step, and one that has angered many woodworkers, was to try to force the manufacturers to use the technology by approaching the CPSC. In retrospect this was a mistake on his part - but it was an understandable mistake.
His final step was to build and sell a table saw using the brake. For this he deserves kudo's. He could have produced a low or mid quality saw with the brake and it would have sold. Instead he has produced high quality saws.
As for the bypass mode; there are some things that cannot be done with the brake system armed; things that are sometimes desirable to do. Disarming the system requires a concious effort and should alert the user that the safety net is gone. This no different than removing the guard for a non-through cut - except that the saw will rearm itself the next time it is turned on and the guard will not re-install itself.
I chose the SS because I wanted the additional safety provided by the brake. I know I can still get injured by the saw but also know that the likelyhood of losing fingers is a much more remote possibility. Would I try to force everyone to buy one? Absolutely not. Would I advocate purchasing the saw? Absolutely.
Making the decision to not purchase the SS is an individuals right. I do feel that if the decision to not purchase it is made simply because Gass went to the CPSC is kind of like cutting your noe off to spite your face.
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Hamlet has something else in common with this thread or vice versa. In Hamlet a Ghost (Hamlet's father) is always around popping in and out of each act. We have our own ghost watching this thread. Hi ghost! I can't see you but I know you are there....
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I would agree you should be able to smoke a joint/drink a 6 pack/... while cutting on your table saw. And drive minus the airbag and seatbelt to save $50 if you want to.
The issue becomes a cause for the greater good due to that crazy law that requires hospitals to treat people, and not kick them out to bleed to death. Minus that one law, peoples personal choices (or thriftiness if you prefer) would be theirs to decide. When the numbers get big enough (10 amputations a day?) - math starts to overcome free choice. There are other choices though, like forcing saw vendors to pay a "cigarette" tax to balance the system out. Hard hats, and another 1000 or so safety devices became mandatory many years ago based on the math, not someones arbitrary decision on how to make someone really sweat with a plastic helmut in 100 degree weather...
Last edited by peter night; 02-09-2011 at 10:18 PM.
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Glenn.....choosing to not buy a SS is just as a concious decision as placing the SS in the Bypass mode.
I fail to see how it's my right to choose but I'm cutting my nose to spite my face if I do it because I don't agree with the CPSC petition of the inventor of SS.
Folks......let's keep politics out of it......
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Contributor
There are situations where you might hold your nose, but you use a device because it has great value to you. I don't share your feelings about Mr. Gass but if I did I'd still buy the SawStop because it's my hand that might be mangled. So maybe the proverb should be "Cutting off your hand to spite your face."
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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No, we aren't all paying for them. People who have insurance pay for them. Said people could go with insurance that excludes table saw injuries. For a lot of reasons they don't, one of the biggest being that while Sammy Skier may think excluding tablesaws is a great idea, he's not willing to risk that they might exclude skiing next. So when he buys insurance, Sammy Skier voluntarily assumes a modes amount of risk on behalf of Wally Woodworker, who is doing the same for Sammy Skier. That's what insurance is all about.
Clearly not true. This thread went political the instant the the subject of whether or not the government should mandate the technology came up. It has not gone partisan, but since politics is about "what should government do", it seems as though the it's been political from the git-go.
You misunderstand my point. I'm not saying Gass's actions are about morality. I'm advancing the proposition that the argument between woodworkers over his actions, and over the mandate, is fundamentally a moral one.If it's about morality and morality alone why did Gass put a "BYPASS" mode on the saw.
Obscene over-the-top arguments do not convert the masses but instead inflame them and frankly often that is the desire of those who use those arguments. They just want to see how big a flame they can produce. Some enjoy watching the fire.
Whether or not we can choose not to buy the technology is ...Everybody can choose to buy SS or not. It's not a moral issue.
I don't claim to be, nor would I want to be....Sorry John......you are not my moral authority
It came to pass...
"Curiosity is the ultimate power tool." - Roy Underhill
The road IS the destination.
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Well, I have to agree with Van on one point, and one point only...holy Moderator self-control! I guess they've all been worn down. Usually any SS discussion is like treated like a protest in Tiananmen Square. People freak out and it is shut down immediately. Welcome back freedom of speech (for now)...
Anyway...Hey, if you don't like having a superior saw combined with digit-saving technology, so be it. You might have a perfect track record for all your days in the shop. God bless you. I hope you do. We all do. If, however, you appreciate the insurance afforded you by SS, cool. Thank God we live in a country and time when this is available. For now it is still America (sort of, anyway), and just like you shouldn't be able to sue over coffee that is too hot, or burgers that taste too beefy...nor should you be able to sue because you cut your own finger off on any tool, and neither should the government force me to use a saw with this technology.
But for people to get all torqued up about this side issue, and then to spite their own safety for political/moral reasons...well, that is just stupid. You can ride your Harley without a helmet and knock your head into a tree. You can rip some oak and some of your hand too. It is all yours for the choosing. Just don't get all preachy about someone else who choses to avoid those situations for themselves. It is not a morally superior position, nor is the opposite. It is just an alternative. So, if you don't like SS, fine. If you do, that is a sound decision too.
We're all woodworking enthusiasts. Most of us are Americans. Who cares about the minor nonsense. Let's agree to disagree on SS and keep on building.
Last edited by Jeff Dorlan; 02-10-2011 at 3:17 AM.
Member
How can a push stick be safer than a SawStop? The whole concept is, you have the SawStop technology watching your back, WHILE you use the guard, riving knife, and push stick. In my opinion, only a fool would forgo conventional safety practices because a microprocessor is manning the kill switch. And I think that the type of people that would buy the SawStop care very much about safety, and would not skip the conventional safety paraphernalia.
Carl
Contributor
I find it incredible that some folks here can actually be upset that the inventor of this device is actually trying to make money with it. Come on people this is precisely the way the whole patent process is intended to work. No doubt, there will be companies trying to work around the patent, steal the idea, and make money on their own at the original inventors expense. We should be on the side of the inventor. Now if Delta or some other saw company wants to jump on the bandwagon and LICENSE the technology and pay royalties to the inventor wonderful - all will be right in the world in my opinion. If you appreciate the technology then go to your favorite saw manufacturer and demand that they offer the safety feature themselves - don't take your frustrations out on the inventor.
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Van's is a taser. Turns out mine was just my ungrounded PVC dust plumbing.
When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.
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"Thou Shalt Be Friendly"
Lets keep the posts in this thread friendly folks. Name calling and personal attacks are not acceptable here...ever.
.
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But Keith, you don't understand...
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