guitar veneer tops without binding? and hiding the seam...

[jonathan sneed]

Hi guys,

Im about to embark on making a custom guitar for my buddy. He wants a flamed maple top with a (preferably) mahogany body...easy enough but the shape hes wanting is a strat type (Ibanez JS1000) and its very curvy and contoured all along the sides. Im wondering if there is a way i can put a top on that body in such a way that i can get away without using traditional binding method? Ive done binding on flat tops before just fine but obviously this strat shape wouldnt have binding. Can I get away with hiding the seam between the two woods? If so, with what? Glue filler? Thick paint over the seam?

I guess the easiest way to do this is just to make the whole thing out of one chunk of flamed maple that way i dont have to deal with the seam at all, but im wondering if anyone has done the above or seen it. I usually have cut tops from 1/2",1/4",1/8"...those thin 1/48" - 1/52" paperbacked veneers always would split if i tried to deal with a contour on the guitar body so i usually dont mess with those. thanks, jonathan

[Andy Birko]

I would probably just do like a 3/8 or 1/2" cap on the mahogany and not worry about binding at all. make sure the cap is thick enough so that the carving won't go into the mahogany and bob's your uncle.

I've seen a number of un-bound guitars made that way and in my opinion, they look fine. I prefer binding but I think with that style of carved top, binding might look kind of funny.

[Larry Fox]

+ on what Andy said about making the cap thick enough so your carving won't go into the mahogony. That arm carve on a strat is pretty deep, might need a pretty thick piece. I think you would be shocked at the cost of a solid piece of flame maple. PRS makes some carved top guitars with a maple cap and no binding that you can have a look at for ideas.

[Bob Stroupe]

Do a Sunburst finish.

[Chris Fournier]

In my shop I'd make my own veneer up out of solid stock and give the guitar a burst as Bob has suggested. Even though the burst covers some of the figure I think that it actually accentuates the figure.

[jonathan sneed]

We had though about bursting it (a darker blue not black fade) and the back the same color as well, but making the burst very thin so it doesnt intrude too much on the figured body. He liked that idea. Once i get the templates in, i can practice cut a few with scrap wood and see where im at as far as doing this a top as opposed to a solid flamed chunk. The cost isnt so much a factor as it would be finding either a board that was either 13-14ish" wide and 1.75ish" thick or one that was 7ish" wide and 3.5" thick (i could filet that one open and bookmatch it just like a top but way thicker). Usually the people around here dont cut them that wide or either that thick lol. There are 3 small hardwoods dealers in my area - neither that great....a few ebay dealers have been good to me lately so i guess ill check my resources and see what i can come up with on those odd sizes if trying a top on this guitar doesnt work out.

[Mike OMelia]

How about this... I don't build electric bodies, but it seems to me in the case of the strat you could do this by building up the blank using the main chunk (for back and curved sides) then some layer of perhaps maple dyed black, then the final veneer layer. I am assuming the veneer layer is thicker than typical veneer. The shaping process will give you a nice binding. Dying the maple must be done in a vacuum chamber to get it all the way through!

Mike

[Mike OMelia]

At church today, I saw a Fender bass that looked like what you are trying to do. The idea is a veneer (book matched) over the body blank. THe thickness of this veneer determines how far towards the edges you can "pull" it. Then after sanding and sealing, paint the front of the guitar with the yellow or gold color. Next, out near the seam, the redish color (going over the seam), then the black all the way around to the back. If you have properly sealed and prepared the surface, no way you will see the seam. The darker colors hide the grain and seam location. Now I understand why folks were suggestion sun burst schemes.

Mike

[Ryan Baker]

A Strat shape you could do with something like a dark burst. But you said JS1000 shape. If you truely are doing a JS curve, there is no way you are going to do it with veneer. Veneer won't lay down over the heavy complex curves. A Strat is really easy in comparison. Pretty much your only choice for a figured top will be to use a real solid top and carve it. You will need thinkness too ... 1/2" to 5/8" minimum. Of course, you will still need to hide the edge there too. Binding a JS is not impossible, but is extremely hard. Again, a dark burst is a good way to handle it. If your top/bottom seam is positioned just right, sometimes youcan get a clean look without doing anything to it, and the seam is only visible from the side.

[Mike OMelia]

But if you do an epoxy seal, it would seem to me you could make the seam dissapear, no? Disclaimer: no experience with electrics. Yet I deal with this kind of problem all the time in acoustics. It's all in the surface prep. Given epoxy's almost zero shrink, makes it an ideal surface prep. Or are u saying that the desired shape won't allow the seam to be covered by the opaque paint?

[Chris Fournier]

Boy did I miss the mark on this one! My suggestion was for a guitar not being built. Sorry 'bout that. I did have a friend who actually laid veneer over an arched top on a regular basis but the arch profile was pretty mellow, a Gibson hollow body. Impressed the heck outta me all the same.

[John Coloccia]

I'm not sure it's so much a question of hiding the joint. If it's a good joint, there will be nothing to hide. If it's a bad joint, don't glue it until it's a good joint. I think the bigger issue is how do you actually make it look nice. A top randomly carved with a body wood often time ends up looking rather dorky because there's no separation of the two pieces. It works for back straps because that ends up being symmetrical (if you do it right) and looks really sharp. Around the body you will have all these complex curves.

Often the way this is done, even without binding, is similar to ho you'd build an archtop. The edge of the thick top is taken down to a uniform thickness, and then the top is carved how you wish, not harming the edge. The top's edge, though not binding, visually resembles binding. That's just one way.

Go into a music store and just look at the various techniques for doing this. Check out how PRS does their studio models, for example. I believe Godin has some models like this as well. Often times even if there isn't a sunburst, there is some sort of "fade to black" as you transition to the body wood. This covers the awkward spot and gives the illusion the whole thing is made of figured wood.

All that said, the JS series are thin enough that I bet you could find a very nice piece of flamed maple you could resaw and turn into a bookmatched solid body if he's OK with that.

[Mike OMelia]

Yes John, with a nice price to match! Hiding all the figure is a shame. But if that's what the customer wants...

[jonathan sneed]

i think thats what we are gonna do, just what you said john...just make it a solid body bookmatched...probably fine thin burst it on both sides with darker blue and not black..make the back the same as the front so u dont cover up the flame , just like mike said - might as well show it if its got it. If it looks too wierd we can always black it...thanks for the suggestions !!