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Thread: 20" bandsaws

  1. #1
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    20" bandsaws

    which 20" or bigger bandsaw to get?
    felder fb 600
    aggazzani b20
    these two are currently with in $200 of each other. not interested in laguna and the mm20 is more than i want to spend. if i'm going to spend the money for the mm20 i would probably go with the aggi b20/20.

    min. requirements for re-saw is 12" or more to match my joiner/planar capabilities.
    most of the lumber i get reguarly is less than 12". just wondering if having 18-20" of re-saw capability is worth the extra money.

    i know the fb 600 is a has larger wheels and table and a few inches more re-saw just can't decide which will be the better saw. i think i would be happy with either.

  2. #2
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    If not the MM20 then the B20.

    I would say that I think the best buy in that price area is the B24, lots of throat room, solid amount of resaw (though a traditional amount not current resaw mania), strong motor and Jesse to order from.

  3. #3
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    Van,
    Why the mm20 over the b20? i would think the b20/20 would more comparable to the mm20. at this level of saw is one really that different then the other. as best i can tell it seems the electronics and motors would be the main differences.

  4. #4
    I have Agazzani B20 from Jesse at Eagle Tools in LA. I looked at MM20 and used the MM20 for 30 minutes. The Agazzani is much better in my opinion. First, Jesse sets up and tunes every machine before he ships it so no tuning was required when I received it. He even puts on a power cord to any length you want. Second, Jesse makes a custom crate out of 3/8" plywood and 2x4s. That crate will protect from any abuse the truckers put it to. Third, it is a very smooth machine without any vibration I can notice. Fourth, the two position fence is so easy to use for both ripping and resawing. Fifth, with a 1" resaw blade, i get no blade drift at all. I set the fence and rip or resaw without having to worry about blade drift. Sixth, the new Euro Guides have no lock nuts. They are machined so well that I adjust them and done, never have to touch them again until I change blade size. Seventh, the table has a true trunnion so the blade stays centered in the slot when the table is angled, not true with others such as MM. Eighth, the B20 can use a 1/4" blade by only adjusting the Euro Guides. On the MM20 I used, the guard had to be cut and the guides had to have a special fix to use a 1/4" blade, a big pain. Ninth, the base has threaded holes to simply screw in lift casters and it is so mobile then set in place by adjusting casters. The lift mechanism on the MM20 was way too hard to use. Tenth, the blade tension gauge is right on, not so with many bandsaws. As you can see, I love the B20.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hawxhurst View Post
    Van,
    Why the mm20 over the b20? i would think the b20/20 would more comparable to the mm20. at this level of saw is one really that different then the other. as best i can tell it seems the electronics and motors would be the main differences.
    You were asking about 20" saws in a general sense with your title and then more specifically Felder vs Agazzani specifically.

    The MM20 is simply the best and heaviest built 20" wood cutting bandsaw sold in America that I am aware of. I was leaning toward the Agazanni line until I lucked into a basically new MM20. I had not considered the MM20 as I wanted to keep cost a little lower (thus my B24 comment as I think it is the best value in 3000-4000 Italians) when I started going through the MM20 I realized why people love them so much. The Agazzani is an EXCELLENT saw but I would pick the MM20 over the B-20 or B20/20.

    I have yet to use the new Felder but nothing I have seen just looking and feeling it would make me take a chance over the proven Italian saws.

    Chances are you would be happy with any of the big 4 (Laguna, MM, Agazzani or Felder) but they aren't exactly clones and each has its own character.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Cross View Post
    I have Agazzani B20 from Jesse at Eagle Tools in LA. I looked at MM20 and used the MM20 for 30 minutes. The Agazzani is much better in my opinion. First, Jesse sets up and tunes every machine before he ships it so no tuning was required when I received it. He even puts on a power cord to any length you want. Second, Jesse makes a custom crate out of 3/8" plywood and 2x4s. That crate will protect from any abuse the truckers put it to. Third, it is a very smooth machine without any vibration I can notice. Fourth, the two position fence is so easy to use for both ripping and resawing. Fifth, with a 1" resaw blade, i get no blade drift at all. I set the fence and rip or resaw without having to worry about blade drift. Sixth, the new Euro Guides have no lock nuts. They are machined so well that I adjust them and done, never have to touch them again until I change blade size. Seventh, the table has a true trunnion so the blade stays centered in the slot when the table is angled, not true with others such as MM. Eighth, the B20 can use a 1/4" blade by only adjusting the Euro Guides. On the MM20 I used, the guard had to be cut and the guides had to have a special fix to use a 1/4" blade, a big pain. Ninth, the base has threaded holes to simply screw in lift casters and it is so mobile then set in place by adjusting casters. The lift mechanism on the MM20 was way too hard to use. Tenth, the blade tension gauge is right on, not so with many bandsaws. As you can see, I love the B20.
    1. Being tuned is nice and Jesse does do a good job but tuning a bandsaw is an ongoing job but it does save you a few minutes out of the box, the cord is also nice and saves some time and a few bucks.

    2. The crates are nice and shipping on the spine is nice, which I think MM does as well. In the end you don't hear of much shipping damage with any of the highend saws.

    3. Everyone of the big 4 machines should be smooth as silk or something is amiss.

    4. The Agazzani fence is better then the MM, but I think everyone should put on a Driftmaster

    5. Contrary to myth blades drift not saws

    6. You actually can do the same with all the current Euro guides, I can't think when I locked mine, but again Laguna has an advantage with their guides her also.

    7. Not sure what you mean by true trunnion but the Agazzani does have a centered trunnion which does help with tilted work. I must say I haven't done anything to tilt that table, I use a smaller saw for dovetails, cones etc.

    8. I had a 3/16" blade on my MM20 last week and no such issues. I also have used 1/8"-1/4" blades with the Carter stabilizer with no issues, other than tracking the 1/8" blade takes finesse on any large flat wheel.

    9. The MM20 also has the threaded holes like most other large saws, mine had Zambus casters on it when I bout it but I moved back to the Johnson bar which works better for me because I only move the saw in a straight line on a flat floor, if not the casters are the cats meow but fit all the big saws.

    10. NO tension gauge can be correct for all blades, period. Bi-metal and carbide tipped blades take 25,000 psi vs 15,000 for carbon and this doesn't take into account backer thickness. Bottom line there is NO bandsaw tension gauge that works off absolute tension (like all of these saws) that can be any more than a reference.


    In the end you are hard pressed to go wrong with any of the Italian 3, each one has its strengths and weaknesses. On pure heft the MM wins, on specialized well thought out niche engineering the Laguna wins, on CS and no mis-steps though out the Agazzani wins.

    I still say the B-24 is the best value. Lots of resaw height, strong motor big wheels and by virtue of not being the heavier resaw weight like the 20/20 and 24/24 (it is the lighter line like the B-20) it comes in at a very pleasing price.

  7. #7
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    You don't say where you are but there are 2 saws that meet your requirements over in the for sale forum here. The MM24 is sweet. I remember when Paul got it.

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...x-MM24-Bandsaw

    He has a link in the post to the post when he just got it set up.
    Last edited by Charles McKinley; 01-26-2011 at 1:17 AM. Reason: added link
    Chuck

    When all else fails increase hammer size!
    "You can know what other people know. You can do what other people can do."-Dave Gingery

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by David Hawxhurst View Post

    just wondering if having 18-20" of re-saw capability is worth the extra money.
    I guess cutting up an 18" log for turining would be managable, but it seems to me that cutting up big lumber would require special equipment due to it's weight. It seems to me that general purpose bandsaws had similar wheel to height ratios for a long, long time; then some of these super tall machines were marketed. I'm just wondering how much of this is marketing to capture sales from people who are buying by the numbers. For example, when I bought my bandsaw, I had never seriously used a bandsaw before, so the only thing I had to go by is the specifications of the machines.

    In any case, I've got an agazzani 24, and it is a fine saw. cuts whatever is in it's way without any weirdness. I've seen the felder saws, and they look to be comparable in quality. I have a felder sliding saw, and can tell you, they make great tools, and their service is exemplary.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hawxhurst View Post

    min. requirements for re-saw is 12" or more to match my joiner/planar capabilities.
    most of the lumber i get reguarly is less than 12". just wondering if having 18-20" of re-saw capability is worth the extra money.
    How much extra $ are you talking about? FWIW, in 25+ years custom furniture making I used lumber that wide from time to time but never thought about resawing lumber that wide, or had occasion to. In my own work, I used my band saw almost exclusively for cutting curves.

    But hypothetically, let's say I'd found some really attractive wide boards that were 10/4 or even 12/4 thick, being able to resaw them (or have them resawn) for matched table boards or perhaps door panels would have been nice -- it would have been an insane waste to have planed them down to finish thickness, and keeping nice stuff wide would have been a much better use than ripping them for leg stock.
    Last edited by Frank Drew; 01-26-2011 at 10:43 AM.

  10. #10
    Van,

    I believe he means that the aggi table has it's center of rotation located at the intersection of the blade c/l, and the table surface--the advantage of a true trunnion. I don't know for sure about the MM20 but the MM16 requires you to remove the throat plate in order to do any sort of significant table tilt. (center of rotation below table surface) This would be a deal breaker for me cuz I'm always tilting my table. I do agree that the MM bandsaws are probably the heaviest built commercially available woodworking saws available her in the U.S.

    Regards
    Bob

  11. #11

    Best of Both Worlds

    Jesse sold me a set of the new Aggazzani guides for my MM24.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob hertle View Post
    Van,

    I believe he means that the aggi table has it's center of rotation located at the intersection of the blade c/l, and the table surface--the advantage of a true trunnion. I don't know for sure about the MM20 but the MM16 requires you to remove the throat plate in order to do any sort of significant table tilt. (center of rotation below table surface) This would be a deal breaker for me cuz I'm always tilting my table. I do agree that the MM bandsaws are probably the heaviest built commercially available woodworking saws available her in the U.S.

    Regards
    Bob
    I understood he meant a centered trunnion (and no the MM20 doesn't have one). I just have never heard it called a "true" trunnion. As I understand the definition of trunnion all these saws have a true trunnion. Just a semantics things but if there is a legitimate reason to call it true I would like to know. The MM does have an interesting trunnion assembly which has the least friction of any I have used one could even argue there is not enough friction. But it is to the left of centerline with the blade. If one does a lot of table tilted cuts and doesn't want to make a bunch of ZCIs than this is a disadvantage.

    I think the key is all of these saws are great it is similar to discussion the merits of Ferrari and Lamborghini they both are Italian and both are great but there are few people that consider them equal. I want to make it clear there is not one of the saws made by any of the Italians 3 plus Felder (they are beginning to build their own saws not subbing them to ACM as in the past) that I wouldn't be happy having in my shop beyond that it is pretty much different flavors of ice cream, with only economics left, thats why I am so big on the B-24. I suppose if I had to characterize them I would say the MM is the best resaw machine, Laguna the best multipurpose saw and the Agazzani is in the middle with a leaning a little to the resaw side. I can't really place the Felder since I have only looked over it and never operated one.

  13. #13
    Everything outlined by Tom Cross goes double for me. I recently purchased an Agazzani B20/20 from Jesse at Eagle Tools and couldn't be more pleased. A wonderful tool and service in all respects.

  14. #14
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    enlight of some new funding the mm20 is now with in my price range. it seems the mm20 would be the one to get. so it comes down to the aggi b24, aggi b20/20 or the mm20. leaning towards the mm20 at this point.

  15. #15
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    At this point it gets a little more interesting between the Felder and Agazzani the decision was reasonably easy now it becones a little more difficult. One of the keys for me between the 3 saws would be whether this will be a dedicated resaw machine with another BS in the shop or will it be a multi-purpose machine used for resawing and countour cutting. If the latter do you have any idea of the percentage of each you would be doing.
    Last edited by Van Huskey; 01-27-2011 at 2:38 PM.

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