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Thread: Kitchen cabinets - buy or build?

  1. #1

    Kitchen cabinets - buy or build?

    Hi everyone -
    I don't really post much, but I read these boards (nearly) everyday. I had a question that I hoped I could get some advice on.

    As a hobbyist, I like to build furniture, and have been doing so for years. A potential next "big job" might be re-doing our horrible, absolutely horrible, kitchen cabinets. I am a bit apprehensive about this for a few reasons:

    1. With a few minor exceptions, I have never really worked any case-goods type projects, and even more rarely use plywood. I am sure that I can readily learn, but I am a little trigger-shy about starting such an invasive task without any prerequisite experience. The closest I have come is some raised-panel wainscoting. As a side-question, does anyone make large-scale solid-wood cabinets anymore (ie no plywood)?

    2. I tend to take a long time in making things. As my MO, I also tend to over-build everything (draw-bored child's table and chairs, for eg). Therefore, I fear that this project might easily escalate and take many, many months to complete.

    3. Building particularities aside, I also have some serious time constraints that limit my shop time (young kids and med school). I worry that this, in addition to point #2 might mean that my wife's kitchen will be dysfunctional for way too long. I might get 1-2 hours/day in the shop and sometimes (partial) weekends.

    4. Financial considerations. I long ago realized that making furniture is not a way to save money -- I consider myself lucky if I can build something for only twice what it would cost to buy new. But I love doing it. Up in my neck of the woods, I get 4/4 rough between $2.50 (oak) to about $5 (walnut and cherry). Again, I never bought any, but it seems that furniture grade 3/4 plywood comes to about 80/sheet at hardwood retailers. I like to have quality, and I don't mind paying for it, but there is definitely a limit.

    5. Tools: While I probably have the "best shop on the block", it is pretty modest by comparison to some on this board. I have all the regular stuff (TS, BS, lathe, DP, jointer, planer, DC, mortiser, etc). The only area I feel like I have a deficit is my jointer (6", I would love, but cannot afford a 12"). No shaper, and only a 2.25HP router with a table. I usually raise panels on the TS.

    Anyways, these are my concerns. For whatever reason, I don't feel the emotional bond to making kitchen cabinets that I feel for other projects. In other words, I am not entirely opposed to buying some. So, my question is, can decent cabinets be made cheaper than buying them? If so, given the constraints above, would this be worth it? In terms of specs, pretty simple solid-wood design (solid meaning no chip/particle board, plywood permissible) with raised doors and decent, but not necessarily top-of-the-line, hardware. I would probably use walnut if I were to build, and a darker stained oak/maple if I were to buy. Also, any advice, along the lines of words-of-wisdom, suggested books, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks -
    Jake

  2. #2
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    For a short answer if I were building a kitchen today I would look hard at using Ikea (I know but search the forum about them) boxes and build my doors. I think this is the best quick/"cheap" way to make really nice looking and functional cabinets. I know it "bends" your construction specs but I think you might be surprised. Obviously lots of cabinet makers use plywood but it is extremely rare and expensive to see solid wood boxes.

  3. #3
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    +1 on Ikea boxes + custom fronts. I promise you will not be disappointed with their hardware (Blum). We used this strategy on our kitchen remodel about two years ago and it worked wonderfully. It's cost-effective, efficient, and still allows you to put a custom, high-quality touch on the most important aesthetic part - the fronts.

    I know many woodworkers despise Ikea, and for good reason as much of their stuff is so-so. But I can also guarantee that most of those guys haven't spent quality-time up close with the kitchen system.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Colonial Heights, Virginia
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    Jake,

    I am in the middle of a kitchen remodel. Take a look at http://www.cabinetstogo.com/home.asp .
    They have a showroom about 10 minutes from my house, the wife decided on shaker maple. We ordered on a Sunday afternoon I picked up that Thursday. I had them assembled and installed in one weekend. Might be what you are looking for no particleboard.
    I figured I could not buy the materials and hardware for the price they charged.
    Gary

    "It is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and occupation which give happiness. " Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
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    I went through the same decision process a few years ago. I wanted to make them and wife said I would take too long. Bottom line is that we bought and I don't really regret that as it would have taken me probably 5 months of weekends to make them and I really, really did not look forward to finishing all of those doors and drawers. That's my least favorite part of this hobby.

    Hind sight tells me that I would have had a big problem with staging area as case goods take up a lot of space! The process to build them is pretty straight forward and if you are looking at high end cabinets you can save a ton of $$$. Ours were in the neighborhood of $23K and I could have made them for around $5k-$7. Yep, alot of cabinets and they are all custom cherry wood. I fear that if I had taken on the project, my wife would be enjoying them by herself now as she would have kicked me out before they were finished.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    What Steve points out about the timeline is the biggest concern you should have. I am about to start my own kitchen project and it sounds like we both might suffer from some similar problems. There have been two recent threads where home owners just finished their projects. One took three years, and another was 18 months. Unless you are trying to build some wonderful kitchen design, I would seriuosly look at your options. I have been working on my design for a while now, and if you are detail kinda guy, things can get crazy when you start digging thru catalogs.

    Brad

  7. #7
    I will argue for building them yourself. If you use pre-finished ply you should be able to get the cases built & hung in a few weekends. The counter tops, sink, fixtures & appliances can then go in and you have a functional kitchen for the most part. Build the drawer boxes next & things are fully functional. The doors & drawer fronts can take however long to get the finished look but the kitchen is usable so management is happy.

  8. #8
    Hi Jake, Im a cabinetmaker, its all I build. You said you can work on it 1 to 2 hours a day. I can tell you I have on average 150 hours in a kitchen start to finish. My part time guy will have 50 to 75 hours. So around 200 hours total.

    Im not going to get into all the other factors involved in building cabinets. The first thing you need to answer to your self is can you process 10 to 15 sheets of plywood square and accurate, and can you build a box that is square? If you are not sure of this, please save yourself the agravasion that is sure to insue. I am not being a smart you know what. If your box isnt square, the rest of the job will be a nightmare, especially the installation.

    What ever you decide, please build/buy the cabinets before you rip your kitchen out.
    MadeByJCB

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    What Jay said.

    Also, I started my business, (cabinet shop), with less. It just takes longer is all.

    In your position I'd buy doors, panel'd ends, and drawers, but that's just me. I'd hunt down a local shop and have them whip them up. The boxes are the easy fast part, its all the other stuff that takes time.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Brogger View Post
    What Jay said.

    Also, I started my business, (cabinet shop), with less. It just takes longer is all.

    In your position I'd buy doors, panel'd ends, and drawers, but that's just me. I'd hunt down a local shop and have them whip them up. The boxes are the easy fast part, its all the other stuff that takes time.
    I think this is certainly one way to approach it and even the way a LOT of "custom" cabinet builders approach it today. But, from my point of view as a hobby woodworker if I am going to build any part of a cabinet system it is going to be the aesthetic part. I want my craftsmanship (or lack thereof) to be front and center, not hidden behind someone's fronts. I would feel comfortable telling someone I built the cabinets if I used prebuilt boxes but would not if I hadn't built the faces.

    In the end if someone does not WANT to build the cabinets then they should buy them. A kitchen is a lot of work and can be frustrating especially on the first attempt and if one is doing it just to save money they likely will not be happy about their choice to build them very early in the process.

  11. #11
    I usually figure 10 hours per cabinet. If you have 20 cabinets, then you would have 200 hours. That should give you an idea of how long it takes to put this together. Now, that is based on experience with building a kitchen. If you lack that experience, then there will be some added time for your learning curve. (This is in line with what Jay posted)

    There are many books out there if you are looking for a basic kitchen cabinet building type of book. This month's wood magazine has an article about building basic cabinets. That builder chose dowels. I like biscuits and pocket screws if possible.

    You appear to have the tools necessary to build them.

    You could build the boxes and buy the doors. (either prefinished or unfinished). If prefinished, you could just finish your boxes to match. You could also build the doors.

    You could probably get by with B2 plywood and still end up with a great looking kitchen and the sheets are a lot cheaper than A2. (a lot of A2 has MDF core) I personally don't care for the MDF core for cabinet boxes, but use it for panels.

    Take into consideration other work involved with gutting your old kitchen. Sheetrock, paint, trim, patching, flooring, electrical, plumbing, etc.

    Build all of your cabinets and countertops in your shop and have them ready to go before you gut your kitchen. That will limit the "out of service" time of your kitchen.

    I don't give a lot of affection to a kitchen cabinet project because many times people change kitchens after 25 or so years. Those cabinets could end up in a shop or garage for further usage. Build a great bookcase or curio and that could potentially be handed down through generations. The kitchen probably wouldn't.

    But, if I were in your place, I would build them!

  12. #12
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    I built the cabinets at our other house. LOML said never again. I read where you build the cabinets, then hang them at one time. I thought I had a better way, ripped out the kitchen and then basically did built ins. Working 50 hour plus weeks in retail, I had a day off in the middle of the week, and Sunday. I worked my rear off until midnight many nights. Started on July 4th weekend, got the kitchen done and the tops on the day before Thanksgiving. No doors yet. And Thanksgiving was at our house that year!!!
    I think I will get to redo the kitchen here at the new house. BUT!!! It will be built and finished before anything is torn out. I plan to use pocket hole construction, and then knock down the boxes for storage until I get them all built, to save space. All it takes is money. Jim.
    Coolmeadow Setters...Exclusively Irish! When Irish Eyes are smiling....They're usually up to something!!
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  13. #13
    One option is Ecabinets. This is a system that offers free cabinet design software then networks you with a local shop to produceyour parts. This gives you Ikea ease of build with more control of your specs. Parts will come ready to assemble in whatever material you choose.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    We just got done with a kitchen remodel, and I would vote for buying your cabinets. If you're planning to do most of the remodel work yourself, then you've got plenty on your plate without having to build the cabinets.

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    I don't think building your own cabinets is such a money saver either, even if you ignore the labor you put into it. Decent quality stock cabinets are fairly inexpensive these days. Just buying the hardware from a retail source may make you second guess your decision to build your own.

    On the other hand, it sure is nice to show folks what you made when they visit your home. But, that's just my ego talking.

    Jeff
    Thank goodness for SMC and wood dough.

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