Member
If you must use s4s try to find a "good" lumber yard that lets you pick through. Be respectful of others by leaving the stock as you found it. Prior to have my own shop all my tools were job site quality. Did lots of trim work using S4S hand picked by me. You didn't say where you are located so I can't help with possible stores.
Member
I second Steve's suggestion of watching Craiglist. I purchased by 6 1/8" bench top jointer and 10" planer for $15 and $90 respectively. Both worked great other than some rust removal on the jointer. This will enable to you to purchase your lumber at a lower cost and milled to your needs. Also my local lumber dealer will mill for a fee to thickness and rip an edge which can be helpful too.
Contributor
Another vote for a used planer & jointer.
If you can get S4S lumber in the wood you want (not just the crap they have at the BORG), it's likely not going to be the thickness you want and probably not as flat as you need to create furniture.
If you're only working with lumber from the BORG, you're going to have a lot of fun working with some of the other types of wood out there like walnut and maple, and seeing different types of figure and grain. It's like a whole nother dimension of ww'ing.
Edit: It should be easy to find a good used jointer and planer. Lots of times folks are upgrading and you can get some nice stuff for a fraction of what it cost new. Post your location so we know where you are, become a contributor, and check the classifieds here too.
Member
Part of what I think you are hearing, and ... what you'll definitely hear from me ... is this:
S4S *IS* a guarantee that you'll spend more money than rough-sawn, skip-planed, or S2S.
It is *NOT* a guarantee that you won't have to mill the stock, yourself, when you get it home -- either because you need a different thickness, or -- probably more common -- because the boards were STILL not perfect.
Perfectly planed and jointed boards CAN still twist, warp, or bow. It's called Reaction Wood.
Meaning ... that you'll be much more versatile, and get a result that's at LEAST as good ... if you buy the right tools, and mill the stock yourself.
There are other threads, on SMC, about this subject. What lots of people say is ... like me ... they rather enjoy milling and dimensioning their own stock.
On thing to be mindful of: lower-budget jointers and planers scream like jet engines. If you live very close to your neighbors .... hand planes will make them love you more
Member
The problem I have with S4S lumber is even IF it is nice and flat when you buy it, it is unlikely to be flat once you get it home and it acclimates to your shop. I am not saying you can't build with it using some care, but it will make the job harder. Before I got a jointer and planer I built a lot of my stuff with plywood. Starting with good quality hardwood veneered plywood and a judicious use of hardwood edging and you can make a lot of very nice things and never need a jointer or planer.
Member
Around here, you can get Fir, Maple or Oak in S4S.. and knotty pine..
IF you want to use a different type of wood, you have to buy rough, which means a jointer.
I love the process of milling rough stock.. Have a bunch out in the shop.. QSRO, Maple, Wenge, Padauk, Quilted Maple etc.. After you get into milling rough, you likely wont want to buy S4S ..
Having said that.. Woodworking is a journey.. you can start with S4S without any major investment..
Member
I started with BORG lumber early on, but as you do more projects and bigger projects you will soon reap the benefits of surfacing the wood yourself. Wood magazine did a cost comparison based on BORG prices vs rough cut lumber and tools, and the tools quickly pay for themselves (if you're doing larger projects or a lot of projects). I think the break even point was around 200bf (don't hold me to that) which you can get to quickly if you're doing larger projects. I am also very picky when I pick out my rough lumber, I've been able to surface some very wide boards with my 12.5" Dewalt planer, I usually rip the boards on my TS, I only use the jointer for really twisted/warped/cupped boards, but if the rough boards are reasonably flat, I get dead flat wood from my planer if I take it slow.
Plus it just opens up all kinds of other possibilities, more exotic woods, etc. If you have a bandsaw you can resaw (and clean up on planer) and get into thinner stock for more delicate projects, veneers, etc...
I bought a bunch of rough walnut (about 70 bf) and had a friend of a friend plane it for me- he PUSHED these big boards through his old lunchbox planer with dull knives, taking big cuts at a time, and I ended up with major chipout, and the left side of the boards came out 1/16th thicker than the right. I then went to Lowes and bought my own planer. Never again...
Where did I put that?
Contributor
LIL, Not much more to add that already has not been said. My woodworking shot up a notch when I got a planer. I was also not limited to making things out of 4/4.
Member
There sure are advantages to being able to plane and joint wood yourself. I'd start with a portable planer, then add a jointer when you can. With the help of a planer sled, a planer can flatten a board face much like a jointer does...it's more work but it does the job. Then you can edge joint with a TS or router until you can get a jointer.
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....
Member
Ok, I'll jump in here since I'm you only 25 years down the road so to speak. When I first got married way way back when we started in a one bedroom apartment and I only had a few hand me down tools from my dad a crappy 10" lowes brand tabletop saw, craftsman router and jigsaw. I worked in my dining room/kitche/familyroom area (you get the picture). I used knotty pine shelving boards because they were cheap and I could not afford anything else. I practiced my skills made some things and moved up to hardwood.
To start with find a place that will mill for you and sell it to you in the rough. Don't buy it from lowes they will rape you. You don't need a ton of equipment to work. Look on e-bay and craigslist (www.searchtempest.com) and get a used power planer or even a #7 or #8 hand plane. I used that for a long time to flatten boards It takes a little practice and elbow grease but it will give you a good appreciation of what the old guys did. A planer (IMO) is much more significant than a jointer. Don't get me wrong you have to start with flat stock but a hand plane will give you that(get rob cosmons rough to ready dvd).
Start saving your pennies. I (in agreement with the wife) would put a small part of each paycheck away for my tool budget. It was small and I only made a purchase once a year (gives you an idea of how small it was) but over a period of three years I got most of what I really needed. A small used benchtop planer is worth its weight just on what you will save buying rough lumber. However if you are only making very small projects pay to have it milled. I think before I had my hand planes and planer they charged 15 cents a bf extra to take 4/4 to 13/16". Remember you have to leave it a tad big to let it aclamate to its surroundings when you bring it home. It will move no matter what. I've got a makita 2012 bench top model that is over 20 years old milled a lot of lumber and only replaced the blades in it. A jointer small 6" or 8" is nice addition but I did not add that for years. If nothing else buy a cheap stanly #7 or #8 and replace the blade with a good one and go to town. If it's truley a rough and you want to splurge get a scrub plane to knock the rough off first. Either way, over they years you will get your tool empire, just be patient. I know it's hard thinking back it seems like only yesterday for me.
Contributor
When I figure out a piece all parts are figured out using Phi in all planes, width, height and depth to the closest 1/16, so not having the ability to size stock to WHAT I WANT would be a serious drawback for me.
Rough stock is cheaper. Rough stock allows you to work it a a given length, in other words if you need a straight piece that is 33" long, you cut 36" off, joint it and plane to size. This allows you to take advantage of cupped/bowed/twisted stock that would be a problem if it was at finished size.
Besides, seeing a piece of rough show me what it has never fails to entertain me even after all of these years...
Member
That's the truth, it's like opening a Christmas present when you run that rough wood through the planer and start to see the figure and grain patterns...Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton
Where did I put that?
Member
Screw S4S at Lowes or Home Depot. Its not straight or cheap.
You can get lumber at a lumber yard thats been planed for cheaper. Tell them you want it surfaced on 2 sides. S2S. Then you can make a jig to rip one edge straight... then make the other straight and parallel with the table saw. Search online for Ripping Jig on google.
If you dont want to mess with a jig, get S2S SLR Which means they surfaced the top and bottom, and one side has been cut straight, so the last side thats rough can be cut with the tablesaw since the other side was "SLR" (aka straight line Rip)
Once you decide you want tools get a planer. And just do the edges like i suggested with a jig.
Then lastly a jointer.
Member
17 years ago I picked up my Harbor Freight jointer for ~ $129 on sale through the catalog (before the stores started to appear). I have gotten so much use out of that stupid jointer it is amazing! Worst part about it is that it is "good enough" and I haven't needed to upgrade to a nicer jointer.
It is amazing the quality of shop grade cabinets you can make out of 2 x 4 studs when you have a jointer. With a jointer any piece of scrap becomes a usable piece of stock. I have pulled weathered wood from the burn pile in a pinch. It took another 5 years before I could afford a 15" planer but in that time I was able to do pretty much what ever I wanted to with the jointer and a table saw.
With a little determination I would bet you could find a 6" jointer on CraigsList for ~ $100. I would recommend sticking with a floor model vs. a bench top model.
When I find a good price on wood I buy it... because I know I will eventually use it and I have the ability to mill it to me needs.
So just sneak around and don't tell her what you are spending the money on. That is the way I approached this problem right up to point where she filed for a quickie divorce.
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