Combination machine for small shop?

[Jon McElwain]

I recently moved into a house which was a big step up from our last place, but the shop area is significantly smaller. I used to have around 800 s.f. of shop/storage which was just about perfect for my work. Now, I am down to around 500 s.f. of shop space. I never really looked seriously at combination machines, mostly because of cost, but also because I thought they would just be overkill for me. Not that I did not look lustfully mind you! Now I am feeling a little cramped and am looking for ways to save on space.

Anyway, I have a 52" cabinet saw, 16" planer, 8" jointer, and a router table (among others). All are top quality machines that perform very well, but they also have dedicated footprints. It seems that these four machines are commonly made into combination machines in various configurations.

My question is, what combination machine(s) (type, brand) will most effectively replace the function and reduce the footprint of my existing machines.

Decision Factors:
1) At this point, I have just under $8000 invested into these four machines. If I go for a replacement machine, I want to spend less that this.

2) I need a minimum 15" planer width.

3) The saw and jointer are my most often used machines.

4) Currently the jointer and planer are positioned such that they must be pulled out into the workspace to be used. It is not a big deal for me to spent 1-2 minutes for setup on these two machines.

5) Quality is a must.

6) I know, you are thinking, 500 s.f.? That should not be a problem for these four machines. Well, I have some other large footprint equipment and workbenches with smaller machines that makes even this modest space a little tight.

7) There is no possibility of shop expansion.

Thanks for the input!

[Brian Tymchak]

Hi Jon,

I have 515 sq ft in my basement for shop space. One way I decided to do minimize machine footprint was to put my router table in as a wing on my table saw. In fact, I'm still working on that project which is part of a Incra rails/fence upgrade on the TS. You might lose some table top area compared to your dedicated router table but IMO I don't think you would lose any real capability, given you set it up with a good fence and dust collection.

Brian

[Brian Kent]

The most cost effective would probably be building that router table function into the wing of the table saw. Does the planer have to be floor-standing, or could it be built onto a platform that rolls under the out feed table of the table saw?

I have never used one of the planer / jointer combos. I wonder about the hassle of the change over with each use.

[Dave Sabo]

Jon, your post is a bit vague. Are you looking for an all-in-one combo or just a jointer / planer?

Also, just exactly do you consider "quality"

If you're looking for an all-in-one : slider saw/jointer/planer/shaper you can pretty much forget it because your budget is too small and 12" is pretty much the largest width these come in. MiniMax has one but it starts above $20 grand. Laguna had one from Knapp - but it was over $30k.

If you just want a J/P then you can get a Felder 16" in the range you're talking but it'll be used and it will be every bit of $8k. Their are plenty of Asian and former Soviet Block makers out there with units in the $2-$4k range , but they may not be "quality" enough for you.

[Art Mulder]

random thoughts...

1. If you post some photos or a floor plan you will probably get various helpful suggestions on machine arrangement
2. Other than the minimum 15" planer, you didn't really give us much guidance on what it is you mostly do with your tools. Can you cut your TS down from 52" to 36" for instance with minimal fuss?
3. Others have mentioned relocating the router table. Is there other tool overlap that you can do? For instance I remember reading a book where the guy lowered his jointer a touch, so that the top of the fence was flush or below the tablesaw. In that way he could have them immediately side by side without their use interfering with each other.
4. Is there other in-shop storage that you can relocate? (ie: can you move your finishing cabinet out of the shop)
5. For that matter, where IS your shop? Is it a separate building, in a garage, or in the basement? If it is in a basement, maybe you can get away with moving some less-frequently-used stuff OUT of the shop and into storage elsewhere in your basement.

Hope this helps.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jon, you can easily obtain combo machines to simplify your shop planning.

I went from single machines to 2 combo machines, a Hammer A3-31 jointer/planer and a Hammer B3 Winner saw/shaper.

A full 5 function combo machine with sliding table saw, shaper, jointer, planer and slot mortiser is available with either 12" or 16" jointer/planers.

In the 2 function machines such as the models I own, you can also have a 16" jointer/planer.

You'll be extremely pleased with the quality of the machinery, it will be higher than what you presently own, however your $8K price point will be low.

My saw/shaper was $8K, my jointer/planer $4K.

One thing I gurantee, once you buy a Euro combo, you'll wonder you didn't do it years ago, not only do you get space savings, you get accuracy and capacities that will amaze you.

http://www.feldergroupusa.com/us-us/...osgruppen_id=0

watch the above video to the end, it's worth it.

regards, Rod.

[Greg Portland]

My question is, what combination machine(s) (type, brand) will most effectively replace the function and reduce the footprint of my existing machines.

Decision Factors:
1) At this point, I have just under $8000 invested into these four machines. If I go for a replacement machine, I want to spend less that this.

You are not going to get what you want for under $8k unless you find an incredible deal on used equipment. Also, the space requirements for these sliders can be quite large especially as you get sliders for 8'+ cuts (really nice for ripping and sheet good prep).

I have two options:
1) Put all your tools on mobile bases and keep them off to the side. Only the tool that is in use will be out on the floor.
2) Eliminate all tools that require you to push the wood through the tool. This style of work requires over two times the length of the wood for each operation. If you converted to tools that you push through the wood (circular saws, routers, etc.) then you would only need space for a single length of the wood. A combination of hand tools and Festool-style tools would allow you to build pretty much anything.

[greg a bender]

I've got less than 500 Sq Ft .

But, I've got most everything on mobile bases and I'm not cramped. The only combo machine I have is the Jet JJP-12 which takes up very little space.
I'ts amazing what you can fit into 500 Sq ft!

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[Van Huskey]

The planer width is the KILLER. This is a compromise or go used (then it will be an issue with finding those rare birds and price still would be an issue). Just for a reference point a Minimax combo with a minimum 15" planer (in this case 16") is going to be north of $20K new. If I was in your position I would probably get a standard 12" combo machine and keep the 15" planer until I was satisfied I didn't need it. 15" 4 post planers are cheap.

[Jim Becker]

My J/P combo was the first piece of Euro machinery I bought. It got me wide jointing and planing in a compact space. I was at the time considering separates, but was really bothered by how much space I was going to have to sacrifice to accomodate that in my 600 sq ft shop. At this point, I have the J/P and an 8'6" sliding table saw as well as a 16" bandsaw, all from the same manufacturer. The combination really works for me.