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Thread: Copyrights?

  1. #1

    Red face Copyrights?

    Ok, if someone comes up to me and asks; "Can you put this picture on a plaque for me?", and that picture is copy-written, can I do it and charge money?

    I know I can put any picture on a plaque for myself or others as long as I DO NOT charge for it. I also know that I CAN NOT use a copy-written picture on plaques I display for sale.

    Thanks. Bill
    Bill Churchwell
    Z-Cuts, LLC, Epilog 50w

  2. #2
    This was just discussed quite a bit. Check out:
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=151429
    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  3. #3
    Hate to tell you this, but if it is copyrighted you are not allowed to use it period,
    without permission, not even for layout purposes.

    This has been addressed quite thouroughly in the forum. Use the search
    feature in the forum and I'm sure you find tons on this. (and probably much
    more than you would like to know!)


    Marty
    Martin Boekers

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  4. #4
    OK, thanks.
    Bill Churchwell
    Z-Cuts, LLC, Epilog 50w

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Churchwell View Post
    Ok, if someone comes up to me and asks; "Can you put this picture on a plaque for me?", and that picture is copy-written, can I do it and charge money?

    I know I can put any picture on a plaque for myself or others as long as I DO NOT charge for it. I also know that I CAN NOT use a copy-written picture on plaques I display for sale.

    Thanks. Bill
    Bill,

    Copyright law gives authors, including artists and designers, certain exclusive rights. These include, but are not limited to the right to reproduce and distribute copies of the work. If you reproduce and/or distribute the work without permission you have violated those rights.

    It does not matter whether you charge or not. Charging really just makes the infringement more egregious. If the copyright holder has registered the work in question with the U.S. Copyright Office before the infringement, the copyright holder may be entitled to compensation. Statutory damages range from $250 to $150,000 for each instance of infringement and may be higher if the court feels that the infringement was committed "willfully." Willful copying for profit may also carry a criminal liability. Criminal penalties generally apply to large-scale commercial piracy.

    A lot of folks will try to claim the Fair Use exceptions when they really don't apply. Fair use normally applies to non-profit educational use, commentary, criticism, parody, and in some cases personal use (your own personal use, not your friend's).

    My 2 cents,
    Charles
    Last edited by Charles Wiggins; 11-17-2010 at 1:14 PM. Reason: Clarity
    "Live like no one else, so later, you can LIVE LIKE NO ONE ELSE!"
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  6. #6
    Now that's a reply that answers all my questions.

    Thanks Dave.
    Bill
    Bill Churchwell
    Z-Cuts, LLC, Epilog 50w

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Boekers View Post
    Hate to tell you this, but if it is copyrighted you are not allowed to use it period,
    without permission, not even for layout purposes.

    This has been addressed quite thouroughly in the forum. Use the search
    feature in the forum and I'm sure you find tons on this. (and probably much
    more than you would like to know!)


    Marty
    I question "layout purposes". Do you mean FPO? Ad agencies I've worked with use low res placement pics pulled from wherever they can get and call them out as FPO. They then give these to the photographer or designer to work with to generate the print/web ready work. In the old days, there would be hundreds of magazines kept just for the purpose of literally cutting pictures out with scissors and laying them out on boards. Tissue overlays called out FPO.
    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  8. #8
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    Copyright law does protect the owner from whatever use is forbidden by them. If it's simply copyrighted you cannot use it for any purpose. If they have a line allowing personal use then you can use it for yourself only.

    Since the burden of enforcement relies on civil action, using it for your self of a friend is not likely to be discovered, unless flaunted in public. A neighbor was busted by Disney for plywood cutout characters on their Christmas lawn display after a photographer put a picture in the local paper.
    Last edited by Joe Pelonio; 11-17-2010 at 11:21 PM.



    Sammamish, WA

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  9. #9
    Now there is a realistic answer.

    Thanks.
    Bill
    Bill Churchwell
    Z-Cuts, LLC, Epilog 50w

  10. #10
    I've heard of a way to side track copyrights to some degree is to take what is copyrighted and modify some, part, or all to make it not look exactly like the CR item. Many places will not pursue you if you make 1 or 2 items; but if you start a shop of them - then they will turn the dogs loose. Disney and Harley are 2 ardent defenders of their rights; but if you go to bike rallies, etc. - you will see a lot of Harley stuff that is not CR'd.

    Moral / Ethical question you have to ask yourself.

    Heard a speaker at a Tradeshow Seminar say CR's are fairly meaningless to the point of if they come and say cease and desist - then you do so. If you don't then you suffer the consequences.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Churchwell View Post
    Ok, if someone comes up to me and asks; "Can you put this picture on a plaque for me?", and that picture is copy-written, can I do it and charge money?

    I know I can put any picture on a plaque for myself or others as long as I DO NOT charge for it. I also know that I CAN NOT use a copy-written picture on plaques I display for sale.

    Thanks. Bill
    Bill,

    Why not tell your customer:

    "I can show you how to put a picture on a plaque, and rent you my laser for your engraving job. What images you decide to burn onto the plaque is up to you."

    This way you can take the job, and let the customer do what they want to do, and you should be able to avoid the situation.

    Also, as part of your work orders/laser rental forms, you should include some language like (check this with your Attorney):

    Client/Renter represents and warrants that all images they supply to you, or that they will engrave themselves are owned by them and/or they have permission to make replications of such images from the copyright owner.

  12. #12
    Yeah, definitely no Disney or Harley.

    There was a guy that was a huge Disney fan and he went there and he has all sorts of Tattoos of Disney...guess what...yup, they took him to court.

    Harley? Well the famous potato potato potato exhaust sound? Yup, they have a copyright on that...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Griffith View Post
    I question "layout purposes". Do you mean FPO? Ad agencies I've worked with use low res placement pics pulled from wherever they can get and call them out as FPO. They then give these to the photographer or designer to work with to generate the print/web ready work. In the old days, there would be hundreds of magazines kept just for the purpose of literally cutting pictures out with scissors and laying them out on boards. Tissue overlays called out FPO.

    Technically yes, granted if it's "in-house" and the client never sees it that's
    an ethical question that we each have to answer ourselves.

    Even though it is just "for position only" it is used in production. We used a
    stock agency for such images. The fees were greatly reduced, waived or
    applied to the future purchase of the image.

    I guess you could contrast that with software. You may have 6 designers
    working on your team and legally each should have a license for the software
    (not per computer, the license agreement states user not computer) so if you
    have 6 and 2 work 2nd shift on the same computer
    the company should have 6 licenses.

    The shop I worked for had 12 designers and that adds up to quite a bit of
    software! The IT dept had one person designated as "software historian"
    they had to keep track of all software and updates.

    Some may say, but how will anyone know? Typically a disgruntled employee
    turns them in. It some cases there is a cash award for such information.

    We each can choose how we make these decisions, but again clients can
    and do judge a business in part by integrity and ethics.

    Marty
    Martin Boekers

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    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2007
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    2 - Geo Knight K20S 16x20 Heat Press
    Geo Knight K Mug Press,
    Ricoh GX-7000 Dye Sub Printer
    Zerox Phaser 6360 Laser Printer
    numerous other tools and implements
    of distruction/distraction!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Ross View Post
    Yeah, definitely no Disney or Harley.

    There was a guy that was a huge Disney fan and he went there and he has all sorts of Tattoos of Disney...guess what...yup, they took him to court.
    here what happened

    Given Disney’s notorious drive to protect their images at practically any cost, it does seem inevitable that Reiger would have to face the animation juggernaut at some point. He did, when he was 22 years-old. By that point Reiger already had some 80 Disney tattoos and the Disney people told him that as long as he used the same tattoo artist and didn’t make any money off the tattoos, that they were fine with it. So Reiger continued with his hobby, unmolested by the mighty Disney and its massive armies of lawyers.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Fiore View Post
    Bill,

    Why not tell your customer:

    "I can show you how to put a picture on a plaque, and rent you my laser for your engraving job. What images you decide to burn onto the plaque is up to you."

    This way you can take the job, and let the customer do what they want to do, and you should be able to avoid the situation.
    Again, a question of ethics. Instead of copyright infringement you are aiding and abetting.

    As one who has copyrighted material it really ticks me off when someone duplicates it, regardless of whether the end product is given away or sold.

    “Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy and chivalry.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Everybody knows what to do with the devil but them that has him. My Grandmother
    I had a guardian angel at one time, but my little devil got him drunk, tattooed, and left him penniless at a strip club. I have not had another angel assigned to me yet.
    I didn't change my mind, my mind changed me.
    Bella Terra

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