Bowls vs. Hollow Forms - why?

[Jack Mincey]

Dave,
I free turn all my HF's just by holding my hollowing tools on the tool rest so yes you can do HF's without a bed or tailstock. I made all my hollowing tools except for the bent tool which I bought from John Jordan with one of his arm brace handles which helps.
I have kids that core out sets before they have 10 bowls under their belt, but I do think that a oneway system is much easier than the Kelton that you are limited to.
Jack

[Dave Ogren]

Thanks Jack !

Dave

[David DeCristoforo]

My own personal reasons are similar to John's. Although I have called myself a "woodworker" for most of my life I am a total novice when it comes to turning, having been at it for a bit over six months. I have made no attempt to conceal my respect for guys like Leo who have spent the better part of their adult lives at the lathe and who turn bowls and apparently little else. To date, I have turned exactly one piece that could be deemed "useful". The nested NE bowl "sets" are interesting but even these don't appeal to me enough to want to invest a lot of time in making them.

My reason is simple. I have spent most of my woodworking career making utilitarian items. Some of them were quite beautiful and I don't mean to imply that utilitarian work and "artistic" work are in any way mutually exclusive. But the work I am doing now is "straight from the heart". I am not imposing any demands on myself other than that I attempt to express my own personal vision and the things I have been making are the result. I am not worrying about whether or not someone is pleased with my efforts or if they will be sufficiently satisfied to not argue with me about the check. I have not had nearly as much time as I would like to do this work because I am involved with some other ventures that are demanding of my time. But the time I have been able to spend has been extremely enjoyable, even though most of it has found me struggling with my lack of technical skills.

[Frank Van Atta]

First, to the original question: for me the question of "HF or Bowl?" is usually answered by the size of the blank, although I will admit to having made a few large, shallow HF's as well as some pretty deep bowls.

All other things being equal, I prefer winged bowls.

Thanks for starting this thread. I have only turned bowls, but am interested in hollow forms also. I think that hollow forms sell for three (3) times as much money because they take a whole lot more time to make. Am I right ?

Nope. Most buyers don't give a rat's how much time you have in an item, just what the finished product looks like.

My situation, I am wondering how to do a hollow form without a tailstock or bed (ways). Can this be done ?

Of course it can, as someone else has pointed out.

I am thinking that a person has to be good at bowls before trying a HF ??

Why? A HF is just a bowl without a visible inside - from which it would follow that the bowls are probably harder to do.

Two days ago I finished turned a cherry 14" by 6" bowl, from log to paper bag it took me about 2 hours, also no band saw. Am I getting close ?

To what? It's not a race; the idea is to make the best turning you possibly can. Quality shows in the finished product; speed doesn't (except in some of the really poorly finished turnings).

I have also been told that before you get into coring you have to have done at least 500 bowls the wasteful way. Is that correct ?

Hogwash. Coring is a separate skill - and you can make either a bowl or a HF from most cores.

[David E Keller]

This is an interesting thread, John... Thanks for starting it. I tend to prefer hollow forms over bowls, but I enjoy a variety of turnings. As much as I like HFs, I can't imagine limiting myself to one form or another.

For me, the act of hollowing is a peaceful activity. I enjoy the process as much as I do the finished form. As JK mentioned, lidded vessels with pedestals and/or finials allow for the incorporation of spindle techniques which I also enjoy. Another minor consideration in favor of hollow forms is the size of the piece of wood... Highly figured and burled wood is much easier to find/afford in smaller chunks which lend themselves well to decorative pieces like HFs, whereas a 4 or 5 inch bowl is not terribly functional in my mind.

I've turned a few functional bowl forms that get used around the house, but the majority of my turnings are decorative rather than intended for any given purpose. I'll keep turning a little bit of everything, and I'll keep enjoying the variety of forms posted... I'm glad that we're not all drawn to the same types of turnings.

[Chris Haas]

I love the creativeness of HF's, but at the end of the day, i live in a 1100sqft house and there just arent enough shelves to put them on, not to mention time to dust them all. so i mostly do bowls and platters, you can invite someone over for dinner, and if they mention they like one, let them take it home. I have surprised quite a few people like that, its fun and they never ask what to do with a bowl or platter.

so hfs are fun, but bowls and platters are "useful" notice the quotations.

in my humble opinion of course

[Mike Cruz]

Me? Hehe, I make bowls. Strictly bowls. 100% bowls. Of course that is because I'm new at this. I've made two bowls. Would I do hollow forms? Sure. I like the idea and the shape. I like the option. I will hold off trying one (meaning buying the appropriate tools) until I see HOW to do it, and either get instruction, or learn from fellow Creekers. I hate jumping in blind. I hate wasting money on buying and trying. So, for me? Bowls until otherwise, then I'm sure a healthy mix.

[Curt Fuller]

After reading the replies so far I think I would fall into the David Keller way of seeing it.

What I find interesting is how little abstract, totally non-functional work comes off our lathes. I like a lot of abstract art in painting and sculpture but I've only occasionally attempted anything like that from the lathe.

[Don Alexander]

But the work I am doing now is "straight from the heart".

David;

to me that is the single most important thing a person can do and it definitely shows in your work !

[Ken Hill]

I havent even tried a HF yet but man o man do they look sweet! I think the bowls posted try and cover both teh artistic/creative side as well as being useful where the HF is straight art and a reflection of the turners skills.

I also think people view each differently as others have expressed. My wife looked at some of Keeton's and others HF's and she sais.."Oh they are pretty" and that was that. She has seen some bowls and platters posted and been like "I want I want". Now she is straight up practical mom of two hillbilly so I don't expect her to start pulling dollars out of her mason jar to buy every HF, on the other hand, some fo my female friends have just about busted a purse when they see the same HF's and asked where to buy or how to buy!

I believe that if you are truly turning for enjoyment, no matter what you turn your work will reflect it. For me personally, it isnt about the challenge or the usefullness but a good balance. I want what I make to be appreciated and used in some manner and if I try some type of HF it may be more of a box type that can be used and allow me to try and be creative in design.

[Jeff Nicol]

It seems to me that a lot of it is taste. For example, I believe that jazz music is a valid art form and that jazz has had many virtuoso/master muscians who have contributed to making masterpieces in the genre; but, I don't personally love to listen to most jazz. I'm not a fan or connisseur of the art form; it's just not my favorite flavor.

Similarly, most hollow forms I've seen, I'm not anxious to own to put up on my shelf. That said, I'd love to have a giant Ellsworth hollow form, for example. I like covered jar and box type forms, but as a general matter, eye candy forms on sticks with finials are not my cup of tea. Unlike many of you, from what I'm reading here, I lean hard to the utilitarian aspects of turning. I like bowls that can be used. Ditto with boxes and jars. I certainly try to make them visually pleasing, but as with my flatwork, I would never add an aesthetic feature that interfered with the intended utility.

I like the tradition of treen. I like the idea of folks using and enjoying what I make in their day to day lives. I like the idea of interacting with wood objects, be it a cabinet, a chair, or a bowl. Sculpture is great, but a perfect salad bowl is great too, in my book.

Sean, With all the nice cabinets, tables and shelves and any other flat surface, there needs to be that peice of art or decoration to enhance the total outcome of the room or area. So that is why we have the simple and the extravagant in turned pieces. Some designers use rough utilitarian pieces to accent modern furnishings and other times the pristine HF with everything shining and incredible is the right piece in a rustic cabin. I turn what the wood says to turn, and a 4x4 blank is better suited for a small HF rather than a bowl. So it always is up to the turner and the buyer or person who recieves the piece as a gift to what it means to them, and each and every one of them strikes us differently at different times or in a certain location.

No matter we all love to see the curls flying off the lathe!

Jeff

[Steve Schlumpf]

John - great question!

I prefer hollow forms and not because they challenge me (they do!) or that they are fun to make (very time consuming when compared to a bowl) but because I can vary the form as my tastes and skills evolve.

[Sean Hughto]

Jeff, if it sounded like I meant that folks shouldn't do all kinds of turning, that's not what I meant to communicate at all. In a nutshell, I think we all have to "follow our bliss" (credit Joseph Campbell); our best work will be the work that turns us on the most. Creativity is a wonderful thing - where ideas and execution some together to bring something new into existence.

I too like to let the wood tell me to a large extent. And I've made some forms that approach HF's. When I get a steady rest (cough), I'll certainly make some more. I've only been turning a year, so my statements are just about what has turned me on so far - utility bowls mostly - and not necessarily any sort of prediction about what I may be into next month or next year. Just following my bliss.

[Dave Ogren]

I think that this has been a wonderful thread. Thanks Frank, and everyone for answering my questions and giving me insight into what everyone is thinking. I hope I can remember all it it and it sinks in.

This is a wonderful forum, I enjoy reading all of the posts but am not usually motovated to post. This one peaked my interest.

Thanks again, Keep up the great work.

Dave

[Skip Spaulding]

A great thread! I enjoy a little of all turning, Christmas decorations, pens, bowls, had a great time with the grand children making Harry Potter magic wands. I have done a few hollow forms and center pieces but guess I prefer to see my things used and not setting on a shelf collecting dust, that may be because I give most of my turnings away and lack the artistic talent that many on this site are very lucky to have. With my bowls etc., if they don't hold water they're ART!!
I truly enjoy looking at all of the wonderful creations on this forum and regret I will probably never have the talent or live long enough to try many of the fine pieces I see! Thank goodness we don't all turn the same thing.