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Thread: Lets talk bandsaw blades!

  1. #16
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    Mike,

    It has been a while since I purchased my Diemaster2 so I don't recall my thought process at the time. All I can tell you is that after studying David Marks' Woodworks shows, I think what I have is what he liked to use on his "big blue" bandsaw. I know David likes Lenox, and I know the blades was bimetal and I further know that it was 6 tpi. I took all that and found the Diemaster2 and ordered it. Maybe the 6 tpi isn't available in the thinner blade?? Maybe the hook-style isn't? I dunno...maybe the thinner one wasn't available 5 years ago?

    Looks like maybe I need to go research the Diemaster2 again and see what's what!
    Wood: a fickle medium....

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Hitt View Post
    Van, just a FYI,... a few years back on another forum, the subject of rounding the back of BS blades had been discussed quite often and one poster was concerned about doing it to his Trimaster. He contacted Lenox specifically about the Trimaster and reported their reply. Their reply was that they DID NOT recommend ANY grinding on the back of the Trimaster and gave several reasons. (seems like the reasons were specific to the type of metal, but I can't remember for sure). No mention was made for any blades other than the Trimaster so I don't know if that warning held true for any of their other types of blades or not since the reply was specifically addressed to the Trimaster query.
    Just got off the phone with a Lenox Tech.

    First a little about rounding or putting a radius on the trailing edge of a bandsaw blades backing material. The radius is there to prevent crack from forming on the sharp edges left in the production process this has been conventional wisdom as long as I have been using bandsaws. It seems the radius is still considered warranted BUT the Lenox tech told me that ALL their blades come pre radiused from the factory and suggests that it is probably true for every manufacturer. He further stated that if the blade gets dinged or damaged (by mishandling or some issue with guides) then stoning to touch up this damage is useful all any of their bands including the Trimaster. Basically if the trailing edge looks (he mentioned a microscope, which is not something I have in my shop...) or feels like it has a sharp edge or nicks it would be useful to round it, if not it was done at the factory. Interesting, and thanks for info Norman, although the issue with the Trimaster itself is still a little murky it seems radiusing a new blade may well be wasted effort.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  3. #18
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    Van,

    It's been my understanding as well that Lenox (at least) pre-radiuses their blades so there is no reason for the consumer to do it.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Padilla View Post
    I didn't read the whole thing and only skimmed it a bit but my personal findings are that for resawing, going wider isn't necessarily all that it is cracked up to be.

    Most who read my posts regarding bandsaw blades know that I really like my Lenox blades and really do not like my Timberwolf blades.

    I do mostly resaw on my MM20 so that is where my experiences come into play.

    I have a pricey carbide Trimaster that is 1" wide, 1/16" kerf, 2/3 variable pitch and I have a less pricey bimetal Diemaster2 that is 1/2" wide, ~0.032" kerf, 6 tpi, hook style.

    From a pure resaw point of view, these two blades perform nearly identical for me. The nod goes to the Trimaster for a slightly smoother cut but at a larger kerf. The Diemaster2 has just a slightly rougher cut but has half the kerf.

    Honestly, I'm not sure which give me the most veneers from a plank of wood. The smoother cut will require less passes through the drum sander but it eats up 2x more wood in its kerf. The rough cut requires more passes through the drum sander even though its kerf is smaller. BUT, the rough cut requires cutting a slightly thicker veneer to sand down. I tend to like my veneers a tad on the thicker side at 1/16".

    Frankly, I think it is a wash until you compare the COST of the two blades: The Diemaster2 is 20% the cost of the Trimaster. The Trimaster will likely outlast the bimetal but I gotta tell you, I'm quite impressed with how sharp the Diemaster2 has stayed and it has gnawed through a couple 100 bf of walnut in its life so far. I tend to leave the Diemaster2 on my BS as it has become more or less my general purpose blade.

    I also want to say that I have a Lenox WoodmasterCT carbide blade. It is 1" wide, 0.051" kerf and the pitch is like 1.3 tpi or something. While I expected a rough cut from this blade, it was too rough for my liking and not conducive to my quest at yielding maximum veneers from a plank. It sits quietly on my wall...all 14' off it.

    First, before I forget it the Dimaster 2 is available in 6 TPI with .025" backer band. In my experience this can be a band material that small supply houses don't carry as stock.

    Your points are well taken and this is what I mean by the black arts in bandsaws. What may work for some will not always be best for all.

    Bimetal blades can very well be the most cost effective, I have watched my usage over time and it is hard to be 100% sure which saves the most money in the long run. I will say that this is the reason I favor the Laguna RK for a carbide blade the fact that you can get several sharpenings from one makes the economic race less of a wash between bimetal and carbide BUT that assumes one will wear out a RK from sharpening in their life... When one throws the economics of wood waste into the picture it become even more difficult to decide what is most economical. Further, if you need 12 pieces of veneer from a piece of stock and a wider kerf blade will only give you 10 then economics is irrelavent. I don't like uni-taskers in life and certainly not in the shop BUT if one does much veneer cutting I suggest you keep one hardened spring steel blade (Woodslicer, Kerfmaster or Bladerunner) in the shop. The 5/8" .016" Kerfmaster is my pick. The minamal set and thin backing material gives a kerf that is a woodmiser, they will save more material than anything else I am aware of and though they dull quickly they may save the cost of the blade even if you get just one more veneer out of expensive stock.


    Pete categorized widest blade suggestions as "internet wisdom" and while I agree widest may not be best (particularly when best is subjective) I feel "internet wisdom" has a connotation that seems pejorative. I would suggest that it is industry wisdom. Saws and blades in the "resaw industry" start at 1" and move up with concentration in the 2"+ range and there are well founded reasons for this. I think the key here is the criteria for "best" resaw blade. My wider is usually better suggestion is based on wider blades generally make it easier to make long straight cuts with less chance for barrelling etc. The increased beam strength not only reduces the chances of deflection as well as insuring one can use the fastest feed rate the cheap clearing properties of a given blade allow. Straight, square cuts are the primary criteria when resawing particularly with veneers, where a small barrel in the cut may make an entire flitch unusable. With the right saw and increased skill level one can focus on other criteria like finish, this may take you down a road to less aggressive blades which are often only available in more narrow sizes, the same is true if one is trying to reduce waste, but in both cases these blades will require greater skill to get the same level of straight and square from the setup.


    Like I said one big thing about the bandsaw is the "art" of it. Experiment! I avoided mentioning dovetail cuts on purpose because I have an unusual approach to them, I use a 1/2" blade. My father taught me to cut DTs on the BS with a 1/2" blade and though I rarely use the BS anymore thats the way I still do it when I do. I don't know why he did it that way and at the time I assumed that was the way it was done, I have never cut a DT on a BS with anything smaller and though I know the reasons to use a smaller blade I am not sure why I don't, my guess is nostalgia, feeling close to a father I lost decades ago.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  5. #20
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    Cool...a kerfmaster. *ka-ching* I'll be looking one of those up soon. Who makes that blade?

    I suspect the professional resaw industry has very wide blades for a variety of reasons, but here are two off the top of my head:

    (1) Strength..wide blades can take the abuse and won't break.
    (2) Take several sharpenings?

    In our shops with our "puny" machines (compared to industry), we aren't feeding humongous logs through our bandsaws with a power feeder. I suspect most of us do NOT use a power feeder for the bandsaw. Further, most of our puny machines can't properly tension a very wide blade. I mean, will there really be a HUGE difference in resawing with a 1/2" blade vs. a 1" blade? Yeah, it is twice as thick but the stock is being fed into the blade the same way.

    An interesting experiment: Get the exact same blade cutting profile put on 1/2" wide and 1" wide metal stock. Let's assume your BS can "properly" tension the two blades. I would hazard that one couldn't tell the difference between the two when resawing in our shops.

    Now keep in mind I am speaking from my MM20...and very nice bandsaw most would agree. I've NEVER used another bandsaw other than this one. I can tension things just fine as evidenced by my uniformly sized veneers that I peel off a face. Maybe I'm lucky in never having had to "deal with" a undersized BS...I probably am.

    Anyway, that is my take on the "wider is better for resawing" axiom. I think we should remember that the blade is maybe only half the story.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Padilla View Post
    Cool...a kerfmaster. *ka-ching* I'll be looking one of those up soon. Who makes that blade?

    I suspect the professional resaw industry has very wide blades for a variety of reasons, but here are two off the top of my head:

    (1) Strength..wide blades can take the abuse and won't break.
    (2) Take several sharpenings?

    In our shops with our "puny" machines (compared to industry), we aren't feeding humongous logs through our bandsaws with a power feeder. I suspect most of us do NOT use a power feeder for the bandsaw. Further, most of our puny machines can't properly tension a very wide blade. I mean, will there really be a HUGE difference in resawing with a 1/2" blade vs. a 1" blade? Yeah, it is twice as thick but the stock is being fed into the blade the same way.

    An interesting experiment: Get the exact same blade cutting profile put on 1/2" wide and 1" wide metal stock. Let's assume your BS can "properly" tension the two blades. I would hazard that one couldn't tell the difference between the two when resawing in our shops.

    Now keep in mind I am speaking from my MM20...and very nice bandsaw most would agree. I've NEVER used another bandsaw other than this one. I can tension things just fine as evidenced by my uniformly sized veneers that I peel off a face. Maybe I'm lucky in never having had to "deal with" a undersized BS...I probably am.

    Anyway, that is my take on the "wider is better for resawing" axiom. I think we should remember that the blade is maybe only half the story.

    The Kerfmaster is somewhat of an enigma, the only place I have found it is Spectrum supply, they list it as a Lenox blade but the Lenox reps tell me they don't make a blade like this currently and feel it may be NOS band they used to make called the Furnmaster (for furniture). I haven't bothered to investigate further since it is basically the same blade as the Woodslicer and Bandrunner just less expensive, it is a thin kerf, minimal set, spring steel blade with hardedened teeth. The 5/8" .016 blade runs just under $25 for the MM20 plus shipping but they have a sample pack with a 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4" .022 blades and a 5/8" .016" blade for about $80 and it ships free. (they also have a $25 minimum) Although the MM20 can tension a much more substatial blade they are great when trying to eek out the extra veneer slice.

    In general I agree with your view of resaw blade width, all other things equal a 1/2" blade will give the same finish as a 1.5" blade as long as the operator has the skill to feather their feed and not overwhelm the beam strength of the 1/2" blade. The 1.5" blade with its huge increase in beam strength and resulting deflection resistence makes it more idiotproof and being an idiot I like that. The analogy that comes to mind, though not perfect, is you could send me out on the Nurburgring Nordschleife in a 911 with wide sticky race tires and then send Walter Rohl out in the same 911 but with skinny heat cycled street tires and he would finish a LOT faster and look a lot better doing it. My point being the operator is a bigger issue than the blade and someone with great bandsaw touch can use a 1/4" 14 TPI blade and out resaw someone like me with a 1.5" blade but the way I figure it is if anyone needs advice on basic resawing they likely can benefit from the positive attributes of a wider blade. YMMV
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  7. #22
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    Hi Van,

    I need to buy some blades for my wee lil' 12" Jet band saw. I did a search on this sight and found this thread. Via Google, I found Lenox band saw blades direct and promptly got confused with all the choices.

    I do not use this saw for anything but wood. I do not re-saw, but rarely. I just bought this saw for cutting arches in longer pieces of wood that I don't have the patience to cut with a jig saw.

    I thought I'd pick up an 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2" blade with 1/2" being the max size this saw will support. The wheels have a rubber liner over them and it does have a tensioner with a gauge for each blade width, but I doubt it's accurate.

    So if you would be so inclined to offer up some suggestions for this saw, I'd appreciate it.

    ........mike

  8. #23
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    First, I am happy to offer suggestions but understand it is hard to recommend a specific blade unless one knows the exact task but for general use here goes.

    1. I would not put a 1/2" blade on that saw, despite the manufacturers recommendation having LOOKED at the saw I would not trust it to actually properly tension it. It is never going to be a resawing monster as we both know BUT if you feel you need a 1/2" blade for resawing I would get a hardened spring steel blade like the Kerfmaster or Woodslicer listed in my first post. The use a thin gauge back which requires less absolute tension to acheive proper beam strength. These blade are not great for cutting curves due to the minamal set to the teeth BUT given the relativly small table on your saw I doubt you will be cutting arcs large enough to benefit from such a large blade.

    2. If you don't get a 1/2" blade I would suggest a 3/8" 3 TPI Hook preferably with a backer gauge of .025", I would suggest a bi-metal blade but I don't think Lenox (and maybe nobody) makes one that thin. The Lenox Flexback would work here.

    3. For the 1/4" blade I would get a bi-metal blade since I bet it will be your most used blade on that saw. 1/4" x .025" 6 TPI hook Lenox Diemaster 2 would work well.

    4. For fine work I would get a 1/8" 14 TPI standard tooth blade, Lenox doesn't make these, I like Starrett but there are plenty out there.

    One note with the short bands on your saw they will dull quickly so I would stay away from the Silicon steel blades as they dull quicker than carbon, even though they are more expensive. Get bi-metal when you can as they will outlast carbon bands by a LOT, aren't too much more expensive BUT avoid any band that is thicker than .025" on that saw. With the 3/8" (or 1/2" if you must) 1/4" and 1/8" blade trio that I outlined you should be able to cover 90+% of the cuts you will make on that saw. You will constantly run into situations where you don't have the perfect blade for a particular cut, just like with any saw, but with these three you can make do in pretty much every case or break down and buy a more appropriate blade.

  9. #24
    I just received my order from Lou Iturra. I picked up a 1/4" 6 tpi Lenox bimetal for all-around use and a 3/4" 3-4 tpi .022 blade runner. I have the Grizz go555x. I discussed the 3/4 blade with Louis as I read Dukeske's book that the wheel may not be wide enough. Louis assured me the 3/4" would would be fine (note the thickness is .022). It also came pre-rounded. I hope to use it over the next 2 weeks and report in!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Delpizzo View Post
    I just received my order from Lou Iturra. I picked up a 1/4" 6 tpi Lenox bimetal for all-around use and a 3/4" 3-4 tpi .022 blade runner. I have the Grizz go555x. I discussed the 3/4 blade with Louis as I read Dukeske's book that the wheel may not be wide enough. Louis assured me the 3/4" would would be fine (note the thickness is .022). It also came pre-rounded. I hope to use it over the next 2 weeks and report in!
    The thin gauge of the hardened spring steel blades such as the blade runner reduces the absolute tension required to properly tension them (roughly 15,000 PSI) and thus even the 14" cast clone saws can at least get close to tensioning them correctly, the thin gauge also has the benefit of reducing fatigue over the smaler wheels, my fear is bending the notoriously weak top wheel hinge on those saws. Keep in mind these saws were designed for 1/4" blades over 70 years ago and they don't make 'em like they used to. Iturra sells a beefed up version to combat this if anyone is interested.

    My choice is still a 5/8" .016 or 1/2" .025" blade for those saws but Louis knows far more than I! Heck there are people running 3/4" carbide Laguna Resaw Kings on Asian 14" cast clones and are happy with them. Louis, with his far greater personal experience, feels more comfortable with pushing the envelope, I on the other hand prefer the conservative approach partly because if you bend your top wheel hinge trying to get the correct tension on a 3/4" blade I would feel BAD.

  11. #26
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    Recommendations for a Jet JWBS-16B?

    Wow, you guys have inspired me to upgrade from the crappy factory blade on the Jet 16" that I bought last year. It's one of the newer steel frame saws, and according to the specs it can handle 1/8" to 1.5" blades.

    Here's what I'm thinking so far, going all bi-metal blades:

    1/4" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6 tpi skip tooth for most curves
    1/2" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6/10 variable pitch for general purpose use

    I'm unsure on a blade for resaw, I'm thinking the 1" Woodmaster B either 1.3 or 2 tpi blade .035 thickness would probably be fine, and I can go as high as the 1.25" blade and still have the .035 thickness (1 or 1.3 tpi). Going to 1.5" gets me .050" thickness and 1.1 tpi.

    Any comments or recommendations for resaw blades on this saw?

    Thanks!

    Dave Stuve

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Stuve View Post
    Wow, you guys have inspired me to upgrade from the crappy factory blade on the Jet 16" that I bought last year. It's one of the newer steel frame saws, and according to the specs it can handle 1/8" to 1.5" blades.

    Here's what I'm thinking so far, going all bi-metal blades:

    1/4" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6 tpi skip tooth for most curves
    1/2" Diemaster2 .025 thickness, 6/10 variable pitch for general purpose use

    I'm unsure on a blade for resaw, I'm thinking the 1" Woodmaster B either 1.3 or 2 tpi blade .035 thickness would probably be fine, and I can go as high as the 1.25" blade and still have the .035 thickness (1 or 1.3 tpi). Going to 1.5" gets me .050" thickness and 1.1 tpi.

    Any comments or recommendations for resaw blades on this saw?

    Thanks!

    Dave Stuve

    First, I think that saw is the newer triangular frame correct, the older Jet with the square frame (I think without the B in the model) was rather prone to deflection and my recommendation would be different.

    First you are correct about not wanting to go to the WM B in 1.5", I wouldn't even attempt to run that on my MM20!

    Making a long story short I would get the 1" WM B in for that saw. I would probably get it in 2 TPI since I think the resaw height is 10" on that saw but it is almost a flip of the coin between it and 1.3 TPI. The 2 TPI will have a lower feed rate (but still quick) but last longer if not overfeed. If the resaw height was over 12" and you used it at those heights regularly I would say 1.3 TPI. I could elaborate on my reasons but they are more in the art than in the science range but suffice it to say it lies in the fact the bi-metal blade likes a lot of tension and the difference in quality between 1 and 1.25" blades of the same design is minimal to begin with and maybe worse for the 1.25" blade because the 1.25" blade may cause significantly more deflection to get it tensioned properly.

    The WM B is an often overlooked blade but it may be the best value in resaw blades for for those of us who this is merely a hobby, and by that I mean those of use that don't have the bandsaw running 4 or more hours a day resawing.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    First, I am happy to offer suggestions but understand it is hard to recommend a specific blade unless one knows the exact task but for general use here goes.

    1. I would not put a 1/2" blade on that saw, despite the manufacturers recommendation having LOOKED at the saw I would not trust it to actually properly tension it. It is never going to be a resawing monster as we both know BUT if you feel you need a 1/2" blade for resawing I would get a hardened spring steel blade like the Kerfmaster or Woodslicer listed in my first post. The use a thin gauge back which requires less absolute tension to acheive proper beam strength. These blade are not great for cutting curves due to the minamal set to the teeth BUT given the relativly small table on your saw I doubt you will be cutting arcs large enough to benefit from such a large blade.

    2. If you don't get a 1/2" blade I would suggest a 3/8" 3 TPI Hook preferably with a backer gauge of .025", I would suggest a bi-metal blade but I don't think Lenox (and maybe nobody) makes one that thin. The Lenox Flexback would work here.

    3. For the 1/4" blade I would get a bi-metal blade since I bet it will be your most used blade on that saw. 1/4" x .025" 6 TPI hook Lenox Diemaster 2 would work well.

    4. For fine work I would get a 1/8" 14 TPI standard tooth blade, Lenox doesn't make these, I like Starrett but there are plenty out there.

    One note with the short bands on your saw they will dull quickly so I would stay away from the Silicon steel blades as they dull quicker than carbon, even though they are more expensive. Get bi-metal when you can as they will outlast carbon bands by a LOT, aren't too much more expensive BUT avoid any band that is thicker than .025" on that saw. With the 3/8" (or 1/2" if you must) 1/4" and 1/8" blade trio that I outlined you should be able to cover 90+% of the cuts you will make on that saw. You will constantly run into situations where you don't have the perfect blade for a particular cut, just like with any saw, but with these three you can make do in pretty much every case or break down and buy a more appropriate blade.
    Thank you Van.

  14. #29
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    Wow great thread for bandsaw blade choices. I happen to be thinking about a carbide blade for my saw as I burn though too many blades re-sawing mostly hardwoods. I've used many different blades and the most recent was a Woodslicer which cut great, but I need something that will really last, I end up trying to cut with dull bands far too often:>(

    So how much degrade in quality should I expect from a carbide blade compared to a decent spring steel blade? Would it be enough that I'd want to keep something like a Wood Slicer on hand for the rare veneer job? Do the carbide blades require much more HP due to not being quite as sharp and having a lager kerf, or is it a negligible difference?

    FWIW I'm running a 20" Delta so tension for a 1" or so blade is not a problem. Most of the stock I re-saw is thicker and gets run through the planer anyway. And most of what I cut are domestic hardwoods.

    thanks,
    JeffD

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Duncan View Post

    So how much degrade in quality should I expect from a carbide blade compared to a decent spring steel blade?

    The difference between a good carbide resaw blade in terms of finish will be very small if any compared to a Woodslicer type blade.

    Would it be enough that I'd want to keep something like a Wood Slicer on hand for the rare veneer job?

    In terms of finish no, but if you ever cut veneer from very rare/expensive veneer the thin gauge hardened spring steel blades can be worth using since they can save their purchase price with reduced waste.

    Do the carbide blades require much more HP due to not being quite as sharp and having a lager kerf, or is it a negligible difference?

    That is a good question, they do use more horsepower no doubt but I have never used a carbide blade on a low powered saw so I can't say where the point is one would have trouble. I would guess that if one goes under 1 hp per 6" of resaw you probably would have to slow your feedrate for the harder domestics, some exotics would be worse.

    FWIW I'm running a 20" Delta so tension for a 1" or so blade is not a problem. Most of the stock I re-saw is thicker and gets run through the planer anyway. And most of what I cut are domestic hardwoods.

    thanks,
    JeffD
    I think you will love a good carbide toothed blade, they make resawing a real pleasure.


    As an aside I would love anyone with carbide toothed blades other than the Lenox and Laguna versions to chime in about their blades. These blades are so expensive I have just stayed with what I know but would love to hear other people's experience with some of the other manufacturers blades.

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