"Antibacterial Soap and Dust Collection" or "Yet Another Dust Collection Thread"

[mreza Salav]

I used to run my 1.5HP DC along with my air filteration unit (which runs all the time) and they were not enough. I bought a clearvue recently and I will keep wearing a mask on occasions when I feel it's needed. Do some search about dangers of wood dust. They are sometimes very dangerous and the illness they can cause are often not curable (cancer being one of them).

[Philip Rodriquez]

Here is what I did... I called Oneida (or another company), gave them my shop layout, which included exact tools and port sizes, and they recommended a collector (V-3000).

The key thing that everyone forgets about is how many tools are you going to run at the same time. After all, you can only pack so many CFM's through a tool at once.

Cluster your tools in a small area... and have Oneida do the layout and recommend a collector. I was ready to lay down $3,500 on a lSDG and I was pleased when they recommended the V-3000. The total came out to $2,200.

[Rod Sheridan]

One issue that is often forgotten is that the motor horsepower is only of concern to the fan engineer.

Specify your airflow and static pressure parameters and the fan engineer will select a fan and motor to do the job.

They can select an extremely good fan that needs 3 HP to do the job, or an extremely in-efficient fan that needs 5 HP to do the same job.

Both fans provide the same airflow.

Conversely if I take a 3 HP motor and fan combination that needs 3 HP to run, and replace the motor with a 5 HP motor the only thing that changes is that I now have a heavier fan assembly, that use more electricity and doesn't move one single cubic foot of air more than the 3 HP motor did.

The important thing is to select the airflow and static pressure based upon your requirements, which is shop machinery/layout specific.

Don't base any decision upon motor power rating.

Regards, Rod.

[Dan Hintz]

They are sometimes very dangerous and the illness they can cause are often not curable (cancer being one of them).

The carcinogenicity of wood dust is highly suspect, to the point of OSHA not finding enough evidence to warrant regulating it as such...

[Alan Lightstone]

It strikes me reading this and other DC posts (and I'm in a similar situation debating 3HP vs 5HP, Oneida, JDS, Clearvue, etc), that the only important statistic is impeller size, and how many HP it takes to turn that effectively.

5HP is wasted on a too small impeller. No additional CFM occurs. 3HP is insufficient to move enough air with a too large impeller (and it's a pity because a large impeller has the potential to move greater amounts of air.)

I keep looking at units with larger and larger impellers. Because as the motors all have the same constant speed, that's what will increase air flow.

[Jim O'Dell]

When I bought my cyclone, I too read (printed and re-read several times) the Pentz pages. I'm not particularly susceptible to wood dust (mountain cedar pollen yes), but still wanted the best I could afford. Oneida was in the running, but all I could afford from them was the 2 hp Industrial unit (pre Gorilla days) and the Clear Vue, and the Grizzly was just coming out. The other brands just didn't get very good reviews on the forums.
I chose the Clear Vue because of how much machine I could get for my bucks. With all of the cyclone pieces, I vent outside so no filters, and the ductwork, I have about 1300.00 tied up in my system. Yes, all the machines have gone up since then. I couldn't be happier. But then again, there is only one person I've heard of that didn't say that about the cyclone he/she purchased. It's not a tool that we get to see many of, and certainly not likely to purchase more than one in our lifetime unless we move and don't take the first one with us. Yes some have upgraded because they outgrew their first purchases.
I've had my cyclone up and running for about 5 years now. It just keeps going. Jim.

[Dan Hintz]

When most of us say "You should use 'X' amount of horsepower", it is somewhat understood that a 4HP unit will be roughly double the capability of a 2HP unit... more of a rule of thumb than an absolute value. So no, we may not specify every detail such as impeller size, inches of water at 'Y' CFM, etc., but any decent brand will get you in the ballpark of what we're suggesting.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Conversely if I take a 3 HP motor and fan combination that needs 3 HP to run, and replace the motor with a 5 HP motor the only thing that changes is that I now have a heavier fan assembly, that use more electricity and doesn't move one single cubic foot of air more than the 3 HP motor did.

Objection! It won't use (significantly) more electricity.

[Rod Sheridan]

Objection! It won't use (significantly) more electricity.

I agree however it will use more which a waste of energy and money. Depending upon the motors it would most likely be in the 10% range..........Regards, Rod.

[JIM HERNANDEZ]

Another two big thumbs up for the Dylos air quality monitor. It helped me make intelligent decisions on which strategy worked best for each particular machine. I use it everytime when I go into the shop and it gives me constant feedback on how best to deal with the work at hand at any given time. As an example, I initially ran two hoses under my bandsaw ( one to the machine's port and another next to the blade under the table ) , as well as another hose over the blade attached to the column . By using the dylos, I was able to determine that the hose above the blade added no benefit to the dust collection, so I was able to eliminate it which was a good thing since it was so clumsy to use. I take dust collection and safety in general very very seriously . Good luck with your research, this is a very important consideration.

Jim

[Tom Rick]

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguide...cognition.html

[Dave MacArthur]

That OSHA link was very useful and an interesting read. Very interesting thread. We've probably all gone through the same investigations and being bummed that the news is not simple or good.

I really like the posts above about the Dylos meters, I need to get one--should have bought one on the group purchase years back. Spot on there, no need to wonder about all this.

[Bob Riefer]

Here's a newbie attempt to summarize so much reading that I'm surprised there wasn't an audible "pop" when my brain got full. Just curious if those with more experience think I'm understanding it correctly (and I felt that if I am understanding it correctly, this was a good thead to have it summarized).

Assumptions:
- budget is a concern
- one man shop, one tool used at a time with blast gate opened only for the tool in use
- garage sized shop (in my case, a 12x20 space in my barn)
- power tools shop (table saw, band saw, jointer, planer, miter saw)

My plan, and a plan that could be considered a "Rule of thumb plan" fitting the above assumptions for good chip collection and fine dust removal:
- 2 hp or greater blower, such as the HF 2 hp blower (currently $139 with coupon)
- 6" main run avoiding elbows
- 6" branches to each tool, blast gates for each branch
- thein baffle to separate out chips (or pentz cyclone made from sheet metal kit) - side note: I'm taking step by step photos of my thien build along with written instructions.. stay tuned
- vent the fines directly outside (vent outside eliminates filter concerns/maintenance, expels 100% of dust collected, and is best option if permissable in your township... yeah yeah, heat loss... I'll deal with heat loss... open a window for makeup air if you select this choice)
- If you cannot vent outside, read pentz site and all the other kazillion threads on that topic.
- either way, gut checking your setup with a dylos meter is a smart move.

Additional considerations (sanding):
- My layout has a mobile shop cart that is used to stage lumber throughout the project. The cart I'm designing is actually a mobile down draft table that has a removable work top. So, when it comes time to sand, move the cart to an air drop, connect, remove work top to reveal downdraft table, and off you go sanding.
- Hoods are needed on certain tools such as miter saw. I haven't finished researching that yet, so I can't give a summary of my research yet.

[Nigel Tracy]

That OSHA link was very useful and an interesting read. Very interesting thread. We've probably all gone through the same investigations and being bummed that the news is not simple or good.

I really like the posts above about the Dylos meters, I need to get one--should have bought one on the group purchase years back. Spot on there, no need to wonder about all this.

I second your post Dave-- we're all on our own here, but no need to wonder, just get me a measuring device and go from there. I like the sounds of a "group buy"... maybe enough folks are interested again?

Also, speaking of particle meters: did anyone see the FWW article in the Aug 2010 (I think) issue about hanging air filters? You probably did, but:

The author, an engineering professor, claimed scientific methods including using a particle meter, and basically proved that they work. He even directly addresses the claims that "they do not work, and sometimes make your air worse" (and discreetly points out that such claims are made by those who sell competing items).

I dunno, it was straightforward and the science was there, with graphs and all. Not sure how anyone could refute his discoveries.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Here's a newbie attempt to summarize......

- 6" main run avoiding elbows
- 4" branches to each tool, blast gates for each branch

I'll agree with everything except this part. If you only have one branch open at a time, there is negligible benefit in having a 6" main if you only have a 4" branch (the smallest diameter will essentially determine the airflow). So you want a 6" main and a 6" branch - the 6" is only beneficial if it goes all the way to the tool (which often involves removing the stock 4" dust port and retrofitting a 6" port onto the tool).