"Antibacterial Soap and Dust Collection" or "Yet Another Dust Collection Thread"

[Wayne Hendrix]

Are those of you with the Dylos monitor using the DC1100?

[Bob Riefer]

Regarding Dan's point about my summary on page 2 of this thread (that a 6" main with 4" branches doesn't make sense), I've edited my summary to show a 4" main just in case someone doesn't read each post.

[David Hostetler]

With all due respect to Bill Pentz, I simply pray I am not mis-representing his write up wrong, but he does a good job of explaining using a simple single stage DC.

A LOT of folks here have done what Bill recommends here, and I am working on it... Simply put you need at least 1.5 HP spinning an 11" impeller, and sucking through 6" duct to get the fine dust (assuming good dust hoods)... A Harbor Freight 2HP DC can be modded to work with 6" hose, and move sufficient CFM no problem.

To keep the air flow moving, you need to separate the junk out before it gets to your filter media. Bill recommends a Neutral vane, Phil Thiens baffle works a LOT better from results I have seen...

To keep from making your DC a dust pump just throwing the dust you captured up in the air, either vent outside, or filter it with a certified 1 micron or better (.5 is recommended) cartridge filter should be used. Bill recommends, and I use the Wynn 35A spun bond poly filter on my HF DC.

Now I am NOT plumbed with 6", and that is probably a year or so down the road for me, but it IS in my plan. Simply put, I WILL upgrade my DC, and Thien Separator to 6", as well as my runs, and my blast gates.

Lastly, NO dust collector is going to get every last little bit of dust in your shop. You bring it in and out on your lumber, and no matter how much your DC sucks, it still misses fine particles occasionally. You SHOULD use an ambient air filter to clean the air between shop uses.

Now having said all that, a BIG Clear Vue cyclone would be GREAT, but far outside of my budget for a while... If you can afford to go with a Clear Vue, and 6" out to your machines, and a good overhead filter to start, DO IT.

FWIW, My interim solution is thus...

HF DC with Wynn 35A spun bond filter... This sits on a stand directly above the...
Thien baffle equipped separator barrel 5" in, 5" out...
The OEM 5x4x4 wye from the HF DC feeding 2 4" lines, one overhead, one mid wall. The overhead pulls from one of the following.

#1. Shark Guard with 4" port.
#2. Shop made band saw upper guide 2.5" port.
#3. Shop Made lathe upper dust hood.

The mid wall pulls from one of the following.
#1. Table saw belly pan and blade shroud (4x4x4 wye, with 2 4x2.5" funnel reducers).
#2. Shop made band saw lower guide 4" port.
#3. Shop Made lathe lower dust hood.
#4. Workbench flex hose connects to reducers for bench top jointer, or planer.
#5. Drill Press

I have more hoods and such to build, and set up. Particularly for the miter saw, router, etc...

[Chris Friesen]

Regarding Dan's point about my summary on page 2 of this thread (that a 6" main with 4" branches doesn't make sense), I've edited my summary to show a 4" main just in case someone doesn't read each post.

A 4" main doesn't flow enough air to get the fine stuff. Better to use 6" everywhere. A tablesaw generally has two pickups (cabinet/blade) so the 4" limitation doesn't matter. Jointer/planer typically don't make much fine dust so the 4" ports aren't much of a limitation, and it's fairly simple to modify them to use 6" ports if you want.

[Bob Riefer]

Ahh, gotcha, I thought he meant to go 4" in both places, but his point was to go 6" in both. Correctly edited now, thanks!!! :-)

[Alan Schaffter]

If anyone has read every post here you will see a wide range of takes on this issue, a good 50% miss the mark and I'm not going to try to set those straight. But there are a few issues I want to stress, that some folks have already talked about.

A lot of people have been buying the HF 2 Hp DC (mainly due to price). After seeing reports of CFM testing and durability (motor and switch issues), it should be considered the low end of DC's. Unfortunately, they are used by MANY folks in a fixed system that asks too much. I'm not sure if Bill P or anyone else has done testing to develop an accurate fan curve for it, but if so, anyone contemplating this unit in a fixed system should really look at that (or use the fan curve for a system with same impeller and motor size). Start from each machine and use the tables (Sandor Nagysczalanczy's or Rick Peters' DC books or Pentz's site) to determine the static pressure resistance of ports, diameter and length flex, blast gates, diameter and length of duct, fittings, cyclone or other separator, etc, from machine to DC for each branch. Also include static pressure resistance on the outlet- from the blower (via separator if a push-through system), filters, etc. - essentially an end-to-end tally of static pressure resistance in the entire system. Apply those numbers to the fan curve to see what the resulting CFM is at each machine. See how that compares to the OSHA standard (or your standard of choice), to see if you are drawing the recommended CFM. Remember in dust collection bigger (more CFM) is always better. Err on the bigger side.

The best DC system from a CFM and health perspective is with short, straight ducting, where the blower discharges outside- down wind- no separator no filter. Unless you live in the boonies in a moderate climate that may not be possible. Next is one that that removes the heavy chips, then still discharges outside. The least effective system is a single stage bag filter system. Returning air to the shop which is never done in commercial shops, is a lose-lose situation. A poor filter allows dust to be "pumped back into the shop." The top-rated felt bag and expensive cartridge filters will cake to a point where flow is severely restricted and the CFM at the machine is woefully insufficient. No cyclone in existence will separate out all the fine dust which mostly gets trapped in the filter media instead of falling into a filter cleanout. Though it doesn't happen as quickly, over time flow can be as bad as a single stage unit.

So, if you don't have the $ for a good cyclone system, and even if you do, find a way to discharge outside. If you live in extreme climates, limit your DC use to when you are actually creating dust- any increase in utility bills will be less than an expensive cartridge filter.

Tablesaw (cabinet) dust collection- think about this. With even minimal suction, any dust in the cabinet will stay in the cabinet where it is not a health risk. The only reason you may want or need more than minimum flow is to prevent a nuisance pile collecting in the cabinet. A standard insert does not allow much flow, a ZCI even less regardless of the DC CFM. Closing the other cabinet openings does little to improve that, and reduces take-up air and CFM. In most cases dust trapped in the blade gullets is hurled at high velocity into the cabinet AND from the exposed portion of the blade above the table where it will rapidly expand and raise dust to unhealthy levels. So what does this tell you- over-table dust collection is more important than collection from the cabinet. The dust needs to be stopped mechanically (suction can't do it alone) from being thrown into the air until it can be sucked up with good CFM and SP.

Carcinogen or not- wood dust can be hazardous to your health. Hobby woodworkers, often working in small shops, using high dust generating machines unavailable to previous generations, may be at higher risk than factory woodworkers past and present.

[John Coloccia]

No cyclone in existence will separate out all the fine dust which mostly gets trapped in the filter media instead of falling into a filter cleanout. Though it doesn't happen as quickly, over time flow can be as bad as a single stage unit.

I clean my Wynn filters every 6 months or so. I take out VERY little dust. They get cleaned by blowing them from the outside with a shop vac or compressed air and beating on it a bit. So for what it's worth, Clearvue's system comes pretty darn close.

[Alan Schaffter]

I clean my Wynn filters every 6 months or so. I take out VERY little dust. They get cleaned by blowing them from the outside with a shop vac or compressed air and beating on it a bit. So for what it's worth, Clearvue's system comes pretty darn close.

I'll make you a wager- you clean your filter, and after you are done I will stop by, we'll turn off the lights, aim a spotlight at the filter, I'll rap on it with a stick. I guarantee we will see dust particles floating in the air outside and inside the cartridge. Change the air, clean the filter, and rap on the filter again and there will be more visible dust. If there is visible dust, I guarantee there will be invisible dust as well. The visible dust is typically 10 microns or larger, and the invisible dust smaller than 10 microns. (as you are aware the dangerous stuff is .5 - 10 microns). The point is, while it may not be much at a given time, dust is getting though to the filter, and a certain amount of it becomes lodged in the filter media and not easily dislodged, IF EVER. I believe Oneida, Wynn, Farr, Torit, and others, recommend against directing compressed air against or beating on the filter because it reduces the effectiveness and useful life of the filter media. Just think about what the beater bar mechanisms common in cartridge filters designed for single stage DC's do to the filter; and need to be used after every session!!

I have a homemade 3D cyclone (Pentz design) which is arguably better at removing the fines than a 1.64 (ClearVue and I believe Oneida), but over time a small amount of dust still gets through to the filter. Like you, I don't need to clean my filters very often but they still require cleaning. From the moment you start using a new filter, the media begins to "capture" fine dust AND begins to clog- just the nature of the beast. Like a fish net- it stops some fish while others get trapped in the mesh. As the media clogs, static pressure resistance begins to build, reducing the CFM and performance of the system. Again, it is the nature of the beast. Solution- clean your filters often and reduce their effective life, or do away with them and discharge outside if you can. I have diverter so can discharge the air leaving the cyclone directly outside when the weather is mild or recycle it back to my shop through twin Wynn 9L300BL filters rigged in parallel when it is not. I think these filters are just too expensive to do otherwise.

[David Hostetler]

... I have diverter so can discharge the air leaving the cyclone directly outside when the weather is mild or recycle it back to my shop through twin Wynn 9L300BL filters rigged in parallel when it is not. I think these filters are just too expensive to do otherwise.

What is this mild weather thing you speak of?

[John Coloccia]

Clearvue is the Pentz design.

[Alan Schaffter]

What is this mild weather thing you speak of?

Well here in NC (like in Texas?), it doesn't happen between June and Sept!!!

But winters are mild so Sept - May is ok.

[Alan Schaffter]

Clearvue is the Pentz design.

I know- it is a 1.64 (the length of the cone is 1.64 times the diameter of the cylinder).

[David Hostetler]

Well here in NC (like in Texas?), it doesn't happen between June and Sept!!!

But winters are mild so Sept - May is ok.

Ah... Jan - Feb is pretty decent here...

Inland futher it is a bit calmer climate wise...