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Thread: THANKS, Keith (and the mod's of SMC) !

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    This is not a complaint about SMC. I liike SMC the way it is.

    Personally, I am sick of forums that are moderated to the hilt. The slightest controversy or mention of even the word xxxxxxx* and the thread is locked or simply vanishes. One forum has an off topic sunforum, but it is totally boring as anything remotely interesting is removed right away.

    There can be a middle ground between a free for all and a forum moderated to the hilt.

    *(Just kidding )

    Well, a little bit of too many rules, and the slow erosion of access unless you pay, sort of grates on me from time to time. Seems like some folks have another agenda.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    15,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Niemiec View Post
    Well, a little bit of too many rules, and the slow erosion of access unless you pay, sort of grates on me from time to time. Seems like some folks have another agenda.
    Perhaps but the majority seems to like what we do so that is what we do.

    Despite what some folks think, the internet is most certainly not free and SMC has bills to pay, too.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  3. #18
    Richard...I believe you have expressed this before. I would like to make note of the fact that when Keith was forced to go with ads...SMC grew. When he opened up giveaways to those that give the $ .50 a month suggested...SMC grew. Since opening the Deal and Discounts forum to those that give the $ .50 a month suggested...caused by advertisers complaints of free ads...SMC has grown. There are now almost 11,000 active members! So... Keith's "agenda" of having a woodworking forum for woodworkers and their family does seem to be working.
    Glenn Clabo
    Michigan

  4. Glenn: Well, sites like this grow from user generated content, ascribing membership growth to advertisers and user fees makes little sense to me; its the membership that shares their knowledge that keeps people coming back, not the ads or their dues. I just think that restricting access to those that share their knowledge and reject fees is counterproductive to generating content. Its all about content, which SMC gets for free. Reasonable men may differ.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    28,504
    Richard,

    In the end someone has to pay the bills. If you don't pay the bills, they turn the electricity off and the lights go out.....and so do the servers.

    There are still plenty of opportunities to exchange information without contributing.....if you are really concerned about exchanging information.

    Nothing is free anywhere on the Internet....nowhere......somebody has to pay the bills.....
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  6. Aw, c'mon Ken, a little bit of a drive by there .... "if you are really concerned about exchanging information." A review of my posts in the neader forum will show that I've given and shared what I know, likely more than I've taken. So I'll not apologize for my contribution to the forum.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    28,504
    Richard,

    This isn't the first time you have taken the time to complain about the different levels of membership here.

    Point blank.....nothing is stopping you from gaining information concerning woodworking or any of the related topics from this site without contributing. Nothing.

    So why complain?

    What one can't do is sell stuff in the Classifieds.....No information there.

    Can't post in the "Lumberyard" Forum.....No information there. Just a place to talk that Google can't get infiltrate.

    So if information is your real concern......it's there you can give or take....and pay nothing.....

    But in the end.....someone has to pay the bills.
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 09-23-2010 at 9:38 PM.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Wake Forest, North Carolina
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    1,981
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    We should get back on topic.

    I think the OP meant for this thread to be positive ...

    PHM

  9. Again, Ken, I'll not apologize for my contributions to the forum, I give as much or more than I get. I'll also not apologize for my patronage of the advertisers in the banner ads; in fact, Rob Lee just picked my pocket about an hour ago, and has repeatedly done so at least 3 times a year for the last 5 years or so. I think I support the Creek and its success.

    Conspicuous by its absence in your reply is any reference to the 'deals and discounts' restriction. I can only speculate what the next two or three restrictions will be. Again, reasonable men can differ on the rationale for such actions.

    Now, I'll promise never to discuss, er, "complain," about these matters ever again, and save the Creek some bandwidth, as it is obviously a sensitive subject.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    15,332
    Richard,

    No one has asked you for an apology. You are free to discuss these matters and contribute as you wish.

    Yes, the D&D forum is another 'paid' or 'subscriber' forum. I'm not sure if/when there will be another such forum. These were all predicated on simply maintaining and running this forum. You seem remiss to recognize that servers cost money, electricity costs money, and updating software and configuring the servers costs money.

    Most folks seem to understand this and accept it but there are always those who don't understand and don't accept it. Obviously, those folks are in the minority and one simply can't please all the people all the time.

    Ok, I'm done with the subject...sorry that thread has take the turn it has but that is the nature of the beast some times.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    All of our woodworking Forums are free and open for everyone to enjoy. It has always been this way and I hope that it never has to change.

    Restricting the Classifieds, Deals and Discounts and the FreeStuff Forums doesn't prevent anyone from being a active Member of this Community. It does help us to raise some much needed revenue that we, as a Community, have to collect to pay the bills. Advertising helps but these are difficult times and our advertising revenue is lower than it has been in the past.

    If you elect not to pay your monthly Internet bill for your home you will not be able to connect to SawMill Creek. If I cannot pay the monthly Internet bill in my office you will not be able to connect to SawMill Creek. The information that exists here is provided by the Members of this Community and enjoyed by the Members of this Community. If I cannot pay the bills it won't be valuable to anyone.

    The annual donation is six dollars, it could be set at 25 dollars and it would still be reasonable. We honestly believe that the lower cost is affordable for more people and by the end of each year we will collect the necessary funds to help pay for our annual costs to run The Creek. We don't enjoy any profit from donations, if we make money running The Creek it is generated from advertising and you can't imagine how many hours we spend marketing.......we earn every penny we receive.

    We have been operating SawMill Creek for almost eight years so we have a pretty good track record of serving this Community. We work very hard behind the scenes, the hours we spend each day are significant and the number of services we must support to keep SawMill Creek open for everyone to enjoy has continued to grow through the years. Certainly not the least important is the job of doing the books and paying taxes. The State and Federal Governments expect to receive their share of every dollar collected, PayPal gets their percentage, then our Internet Provider gets their pound of flesh and so on and so on.........whats left over is about 6 bucks per hour that three of us share at the end of the year.

    Nobody in their right mind would take a job running a service that runs 24 hours per day 365 days per year for 2 bucks per hour. It is a major deal for Jackie and I to get away from home for just a weekend and it is very rare. For the last eight years I have spent less than 3 weeks away from this console, a little over 2 days per year.

    The reward we receive is from people like Neil and thousands of others here who appreciate our dedication and the amount of work it takes to keep the lights on.
    .

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Western Maryland
    Posts
    5,548
    Keith, it is sad you need (or feel you need) to explain yourself. An inciteful and wonderful explanation none the less. Thanks for making it all possible. $6 is a pittance that anyone who is here regularly really ought to contribute. I've visited sites before that ask for a donation if I found the knowledge that I found on their site useful. Honestly, I didn't contribute. I don't frequent the site enough for me to justify it. But when I see people with hundreds, or thousands of posts with member (not contributor) status, I scratch my head. Hey, it is their choice. They don't have to. I don't hold it against anyone that doesn't contribute, but I just scratch my head.
    I drink, therefore I am.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lewiston, Idaho
    Posts
    28,504
    As Moderators, we don't really care about someones level of membership UNLESS they try to slide an advertisement by us. We may not catch all these attempts but we get a good number of them.

    It really doesn't matter to us.

    Richard is right. The information exchanged, the size of the membership and the amount of Internet traffic is the value of SMC.

    Let's not chastise someone for not feeling obligated to pay to the higher level of membership.

    At the same time, I don't feel those who don't pay should complain because those who do pay to the higher level of membership have a few extra privileges.

    Let's get back to the shops.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

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