TS - upgrade or start over?

[Kirk Amidon]

A couple of years ago, I bought a used 80’s vintage Craftsman Contractor TS. It was intended as a first saw, and has worked well. I recently did some woodworking at my fathers shop using his Unisaw and have come to the realization some changes are needed.
There are three issues I see with the existing saw:
The fence is the original exact-a-cut fence, which is a major PITA to set up, requiring a minimum of 4 measurements per cut. This is the biggest problem.
The miter gauge slot is slightly undersized, so standard ¾” accessories do not work with it. The stock miter gauge is also a bit “sloppy” in the channel.
The arbor has the issue where the diameter of the arbor has a narrow spot between the end and where the threads start, which corresponds perfectly to the second blade in a dado set up.
My options (as I see them) are to upgrade the existing saw and purchase a new fence system and maybe an aftermarket miter gauge, and live with the arbor (which can be worked around) or I could buy a “new” second hand saw. I have seen a couple of jet contractor/hybrids and some delta contractor ex: 34-444 listed locally for around $300. I don’t really have the room for a cabinet saw, nor do I have the 220 connection, so I’d like to stick with a contractor or hybrid saw. I just don’t know if with the upgrades, this saw would effectively match the others I have seen secondhand. Is this putting lipstick on a pig?
Are there aftermarket miter gauges which will fit the undersized slots on these saws? I know aftermarket fences can be added.

[glenn bradley]

I started with a 1980's C-man and added:
- Machined pulleys and link belt
- ZCI's
- MJ Splitter
- Better fence
- Better miter gauge
- Ballast in the base
- Dust collection capabilities
- Better side tables
- Router wing.

All in all it served as a good learning experience and turned out to be a pretty darn nice tool. That being said I would have been money ahead if I would have just stepped up to a cabinet saw and put all that money towards it.

At the time I was looking to upgrade, there were not the choices that you have now in the $1000 -$1500 range. I went with the Orion produced C-man 22124 (the larger Zip Code saw) with some additions and am quite happy. If I were to do it today I would spend just a bit more and go straight to a Grizzly 1023-something or the like in a heartbeat. JMHO.

[Cary Falk]

With the Craftsman table and the under sized slots you would be better off junking it and starting new again. I had some tools in the past that were a PITA and I spent money to try to get them to do what I wanted. I would have been miles ahead if I just started over. I am at that point in my life. If a tool is not working for me I get rid of it and get something that does work. You know the saying about lipstick and a pig, right?

[John Coloccia]

I personally wouldn't put a dime into it. You'll spends hundreds getting a reasonable fence, and then you still have arbor problems and undersized slots. Also, it wasn't the best saw in the world to begin with when it was new.

When I upgraded to a nicer saw, I took my old Delta and dedicated it to doing just one task. Now, it's a dedicated fretboard slotting machine. It's on a mobile base and sports a removable plywood top that holds my 12" miter saw. So 90% of the time it's the perfect mobile stand for the miter, and the other 10% it slots fretboards. Consider this when/if you upgrade. The old saw doesn't necessarily have to go to waste.

[david brum]

Are you sure about the cabinet saw? They really don't have a bigger footprint unless you get one with extended rails or outfeed table. It's true that you'd have to have a 220 circuit, but you'll eventually need 220 anyway if you ever want a bigger jointer, planer, bandsaw, etc.

Used cabinet saws are often available on CL for $400-500 around here. That compares pretty well with the price of a new fence and miter gauge. There are so many benefits to a cabinet saw; they stay in adjustment much better, will handle bigger chunks of wood, better dust collection in the cabinet, more powerful motor, etc.

[Trace Beard]

I was in the same boat a couple of years ago and ended up getting a very good deal on a new PM 66. I was shocked at how accurate the new saw was and that it would stay alined. Definitely look at a cabinet saw or hybrid that has substantial weight and go ahead and upgrade to 220v, it's inevitable.

Trace

[Paul Johnstone]

. I have seen a couple of jet contractor/hybrids and some delta contractor ex: 34-444 listed locally for around $300. I don’t really have the room for a cabinet saw, nor do I have the 220 connection, so I’d like to stick with a contractor or hybrid saw. I just don’t know if with the upgrades, this saw would effectively match the others I have seen secondhand. Is this putting lipstick on a pig?
Are there aftermarket miter gauges which will fit the undersized slots on these saws? I know aftermarket fences can be added.

The delta contractor saws use standard slots. I have a delta contractor saw from the early 90's (when they were still made in the USA). I closed in the base with plywood for more effective dust collection, but no other mods were needed. I am at the point in life where I could upgrade the saw if I really wanted to, but I see no reason to (not worth the PITA of hauling another machine down the basement steps). The motor is 1.5 HP, but that is plenty. I've ripped 3" thick hardwood. This seems like a good option.

Another point is that Lowes had a huge clearance on Beismeyer fences awhile ago. A lot of people that didn't need one bought one because they were so cheap.. Maybe someone on this forum or another woodworking forum would sell one to you.

[scott spencer]

Sounds like you've pretty much found the limitations of your current saw. I don't think it's worth more money on, unless you stumble onto an awesome fence deal, but then you'd still be dealing with the arbor, miter slot, and drawbacks of the contractor saw design in general.

If you have room for a contractor saw, you'll have room for a cabinet saw with a standard fence (~ 30" rip), so don't rule that out based on footprint...the cabinet saw and contractor saw have the same table area, and the contractor saw actually takes up an extra 12"-13" due to the motor hanging out the back.

If you've got 220v and the funds, an industrial cabinet saw holds all the advantages over a contractor saw or hybrid. If you don't have 220v, then the hybrid is the way to go IMHO.

[Gene Waara]

I vote with the majority. I faced the same issue and bought a new saw. If you're not sure what to buy, SMC and other forums are a great source for information. Be patient and watch CL. When you see a saw in your price range, google the brand and model for information and post if you are unsure if it is a good deal. You'll get plenty of advice and you will be able to pick up a great saw at a good price.

[Will Overton]

I had a Craftsman contractor from the 80's. It did everything I needed it to do. When I moved a friend got that saw and I got the 22124. The biggest differences were the Biesmeyer fence, no motor hanging out, and dust collection. These 3 things made it worth the upgrade. I never felt I needed more power and I'm currently waiting for my 1.75hp SawStop pcs. I don't expect this saw to cut any better than my present saw, but I don't need it to.

[Kirk Amidon]

Thanks, this confirmed the direction I was already leaning. Been watching CL locally (Mass/RI), and thus far have seen a couple around, but most of the cabinet saws are priced "aggressively".

K

[Chip Lindley]

I started the same way back in the '70s with a brand new Craftsman CS. Back in that time period, Sears stuff was supposed to be the BEST! Ahem!....Not So!

After suffering with the Crapsman far too long, I found an older Rockwell Model 10 CS, rehab'd it, inside and out, and never looked back! That saw was a real keeper until I realized my dream only 3 years ago--a PM66!!

As you have found, the Crapsman fence is virtually unusable. My other issue was the 1000 cranks it took to raise or tilt the blade! You've paid your dues with the Sears saw! Move on Up to a cabinet saw! You've used a Unisaw and now you know the difference! Onward and Upward!

[Bruce Page]

Kirk, I can only speak to my own experience. I had a late 80’s Craftsman that I upgraded extensively and I still couldn’t trust it to make a square cut on sheet stock.
I finally bought a shinny new Unisaw in the late 90’s and I’ve never regretted it for a second.
Looking back with 20/20 hindsight I wish I had never spent a dime on the Craftsman.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

OK I'll jump on the bandwagon. Upgrade, check for used. If you have the knowledge to maintain the Csman, you can salvage a Uni or other cabinet or hybrid. I had a vintage Homecraft/Delta that I finally gave up on. Glad I did. If you can swing new, of course, that's much better. New saw, get a one with a riving knife. I'd mention a brake too, but I'll get flamed....

[Van Huskey]

I think there is an echo in here...

I say sell it and upgrade, new or used whatever works for you.