Contemplating a laser

[Neville Stewart]

Found a 45w 2008 ( new tube) for 15k, and thought about buying it. I have a Shopbot and see the blending of the two. Wondering what a 45w would cut in terms of acrylic, and etching etc. Low use machine in excellent condition apparently, Havent compared it against others in terms of power & price. Could I ask what your thoughts might be? thanks Dubliner Meant to say Epilog 24 16 x 12 depth, and a rotary fixture.

[Dan Hintz]

Can you be sure it's a new tube? Is it the Mini or the Helix? If it's the Mini, it doesn't sound like a very sweet deal... I would expect to pay about that for a new machine with warranty. If it's the Helix, the price is so-so...

[Larry Bratton]

You can probably get through 1/2" acrylic but it will be painfully slow. Quarter and 1/8" no problem. Trying to figure out though which machine is it exactly. I don't see an Epilog with a 16x12 table size. A Mini 24 is 24"x12" and a Helix is 24" x 18". Would be a good compliment to a Shopbot for sure.

[Scott Shepherd]

What business are you in? What are you plans or direction you'd like to go?

Personally, I think a vinyl plotter goes with a router far better than a laser. I have a laser, vinyl plotter, and a router, and it's really rare that I take something off the router and put it in the laser and it's even rarer (is that a word?) to take something off the laser and put it on the router.

However, I take work off the router and the laser and go to the vinyl plotter.

Plus it's about $13,000 cheaper than your used laser.

Just my opinion.

[Neville Stewart]

Heres the details - 2008 45 Watt Helix Epilog Laser. The laser tube is brand new as of 7/15/10 and comes with a rotary motor for etching glassware. a $995 value

Legend Helix 24 Laser - CO2 Laser Systems for Engraving and Cutting Work Area
24" x 18" (610 x 457 mm)

[Dan Hintz]

That's a decent price, then...

[Gary Hair]

You need to be careful who you buy it from. If it's just "joe blow" then you have no support or recourse for a bad machine. If it's someone like Roy Brewer then you have more support than you could possibly imagine. There are a few good companies out there who can sell you a laser and you would be money ahead to stick with them. The machine and its capabilities are important but it's more important who is supporting the machine when things go wrong.

Gary

P.S. I didn't buy my machine from Roy, I learned about him, and every one at Engraving Concepts, a long time after I bought mine. I would move to his territory though if I bought another machine...

[Rodne Gold]

The laser and a CnC router/engraver are a great fit - its not about using both in tandem to work on one particular object , its using both of them to produce a range of objects.
For example if you are in the custom awards business , you can use the router to do stuff the laser cant - like route a thick wood base and cut metal plates and use the laser to cut and engrave an acrylic top piece etc and then assemble the whole for something creative and unique.

What you need to do is ask yourself what direction your business is going in or what direction you want it to go in to justify the expense etc of a laser.
Do you already have a strong base for industrial or custom engraving or do you wish to open this area up ? Who and what are your competiton... ?
What can you do thats going to be better than anyone else in this field?
Being realistic - you have to make a net profit of $7-10k PA out of the machine to justify its cost (net profit - ie you take it home with you!!!)

I can tell you this , I already had an awards/signage/badge business long before my first laser and the laser transformed it - we have multiple overhead engravers and CnC routers and have found that these machines are used VERY much less than the lasers these days (the laser is generally quicker and most engraving is far better quality)
However we adopted laser engraving in the "early" days and had little competiton - I'm not so sure it would be such a no brainer decision these days.

One thing yoiu must be aware of is that cheaper chinese machines which are almost as good and as capable as mainstream are about 1/3rd of the price of your intended purchase - its a little difficult to be competitive with 3x the price mainstream machines against these - especially since a lot of new owners find the entry price no longer a barrier and are scrambling and price cutting to get a part of the engraving pie.

[Scott Shepherd]

Rodney, I'm not suggesting that the laser and CNC don't give you the ability to make a wide range of products, I'm suggesting there's a less expensive route to make money from the beginning. My plotter has paid for itself so many times I can't count it. Not sure I could say that about my laser in the early years of owning it. My router has paid for itself in less than a year as well, again, can't say that about the laser.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have started with a router and then a vinyl plotter, a few other things, and then the laser, if even then.

[Mike Null]

In my case I started with the laser, which still dominates my business mix, but I have added rotary, pantograph, hot stamping, sublimation as necessary.

I just sold my vinyl cutter because I wasn't doing enough to justify it. Different marketing focus I guess.

[Martin Boekers]

I just finished a decent sized project that was vinyl cut, don't have a plotter yet so I borrowed one for the job. Made good money on it!

Client changed one of the designs and had to rely on the laser to kiss cut a new one it worked perfect!

Plotters are cheap and so many out there, it's tough to get into bidding wars, but that being said, projects like the one I just finished do come along and it would be nice to have a plotter in-house! For a couple $$$ I think it's a good investment, just to provide the service.

That little devil on my shoulder says hold off until you can bump it up to a printer/cutter


Marty

[Larry Bratton]

I had a 50x100 CNC router before I got the laser. The laser was such a compliment to the router that it allowed me to recover the cost of it in a relatively short time. I sold thousands of dollars of signs fabricated to a point on the router and then added laser cut acrylic letters to them. Due to health and economic issues, I retired the CNC and stayed with the laser, I find it difficult to make a living with just the laser. The vinyl cutter has been a better producer of funds since I took this route. I am no longer in a large metropolitan area and it is very difficult selling output from the laser only.

[Jeanette Brewer]

P.S. I didn't buy my machine from Roy, I learned about him, and every one at Engraving Concepts, a long time after I bought mine. I would move to his territory though if I bought another machine...

Gary,

Thanks for the kind words! We've got plenty of room for you in Texas -- come on down! However, you might want to keep a "Summer Home" up in the northwest since it'll top out around 105 here every day this week.

[Neville Stewart]

Well heres a strange turn, today I got the offer of lasering glassware for at least one restaraunt ( they have 3 ) so now I'm thinking it might at least make the first few payments on its own. Is this unit suitable for laser etching glassware and possibly other stuff in the restaraunt? Accordint to Dan Hintz ( congrats on the Stinger, by the way )( I love my cnc's) this is a "fair" price, its on lease/purchase so would I have any wiggle room with the lender if I chose to pay it off or whats the "sense" in continuing the lease? All opinions appreciated & thanks in advance. Dubliner

[Scott Shepherd]

You could sandblast those glasses and get a better look for a lot less money.

Just my opinion.