Hand cut dovetails class

[Mike Henderson]

I recently committed to teach a one day (about 6 hours) class on hand cut dovetails and would like your comments on what to teach in the class. The class size would be a max of six people, and a minimum of three.

I'll probably start with defining what a dovetail joint is, then what it's used for. Then the types of dovetails joints, and where you'd use different types of dovetail joints.

Probably then discuss the tools used in dovetail joinery, including how to make your own layout (tail angle) gauge, and how to mark the depth without a marking gauge.

Next, I'll discuss how to layout the dovetails across the board, and what indicates hand cut dovetails compared to machine cut dovetails.

Then demonstrate how to cut a through dovetail, and have the students cut theirs.

Later, demonstrate a half blind and have the students cut theirs.

Then a discussion of how to glue and clamp the joint, with perhaps a demonstration. And how to trim the joint with a plane after the glue has set.

No project - just pieces of wood joined together. I could add a section on how to repair mistakes in dovetails, but I might not have time to cover that in detail.

Any comments or suggestions? All will be appreciated.

Mike

[Mike Fairleigh]

Just that I'd like to be in the class!

[Jack Camillo]

Sounds great. I would include handouts (with pictures, too) so folks can later recall everything you spoke about and showed them. Some people do these classes and then don't get a chance for a couple months to practice what they've learned, etc.

[Eric Brown]

Mike it sounds good so far. In addition you might try to explain how the spacing effects strength and when/how you can make adjustments in spacing for looks.

Info on sliding and tapered dovetails would be nice.
Hardwood vs softwood considerations.
How exposed end grain finishes different from long grain
Explain the differences in types of glue.
Might even inspire them with some pictures of Jims Koepke'sheart shaped dovetails.
Maybe some pictures of Roy Underhills "Impossible" mallet.

Wish you the best, good luck.

Eric

[Steve Branam]

Nice! I'm going to be doing a 9-hr course (six 90-minute classes) in Oct-Nov with a local Parks & Rec Dept. The topic will be intro to hand tools, going through all the most basic operations, and ending with dovetails.

However, I'm not going to go deep on them, not enough time for that. Just basic through-dovetails the way Roy Underhill shows for the workbench skirting in "The Woodwright's Apprentice". I also like Frank Klaus' method in "Hand Tool Essentials", but I find Roy's just a touch simpler and more rigorous in layout without being obsessive.

The idea is to show the students individual skills, then practice them several times to the point they can go deeper on their own. We'll probably only have time to practice one dovetail joint; part of my goal this first time through is to fine tune the class length (assuming there will be enough demand to repeat it!).

I'll also be posting the material on my blog, including a reference list of all the books and videos I learned from. I want to encourage students to explore further, because there are many ways to get the job done, and I only have time to show one or two.

[Roger Benton]

Mike,

For thew dovetail portion of the joinery class I teach I basically add two things to your list:

-On scrap stock I have students lay out a dozen or more lines at angles similar to tails and pins and practice sawing them, half right of the line, half left. Some students really get into this and make quite a few test cuts.

-I borrow Gary Rogowski's "5 minute dovetail" exercise, which is basically 2"x3"x5/8" scrap and joined with one large tail.

I also print out exploded drawings of furniture pieces using the joints to illustrate where/how it can be applied.

Are there enough vices available for the max # of students?
I don't have enough so I use a vertical bench hook. I made 4 of them. It uses one F-clamp to secure it to a bench, another to secure work to it. I think it was a Chris Schwarzizm.

[lowell holmes]

I would spend 15 minutes talking about sawing on a line. I might introduce a sawing exercise.

I would also show how a oblique light on the work piece shows the line clearly. I would show a cheap incadescent adjustable desk lamp mounted temporarily in a dog hole helps with this light.

I'm not good enough to conduct a class, but these are things that helped me.

Oh, I should have read Rogers reply before posting mine.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I especially like the idea of the sawing exercises - I forget how much trouble that can be for people new to dovetails.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

I did this recently ... http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/h...ml#post1172416

Best of luck with yours ..

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Larry Fox]

Mike - my thoughts. Please keep in mind I have never taught a class (FAR from qualified) but took a very well run in-depth one very recently so this is fresh from the student's perspective.

I recently committed to teach a one day (about 6 hours) class on hand cut dovetails and would like your comments on what to teach in the class. The class size would be a max of six people, and a minimum of three.

I'll probably start with defining what a dovetail joint is, then what it's used for. Then the types of dovetails joints, and where you'd use different types of dovetail joints.

You are working on a very compressed timeline if you want the students to come away with anything that they can go back to their shop and try on their own with any hope of being successful. These are good things to know and talk about but I think you should just mention them and do the whole thing in 5-minutes tops. Perhaps you can send this info out early as "prerequisute reading" and make the assumption that everyone knows it or can intuit it as thye go along.

Probably then discuss the tools used in dovetail joinery, including how to make your own layout (tail angle) gauge, and how to mark the depth without a marking gauge.

Tool discussion will be good. The how to make your own stuff will eat up too much time relative to the value. Most students are probably going to have cool shiny stuff and if they don't they will probably go out and buy it before attempting their own.

Next, I'll discuss how to layout the dovetails across the board, and what indicates hand cut dovetails compared to machine cut dovetails.

Yep, understanding the layout really helps.

As others have posted, I think a sawing exercise is in order at this point followed by a discussion of chiseling and some practice. Another thing you should mention but don't have time to spend any time on at all is sharpening.

Then demonstrate how to cut a through dovetail, and have the students cut theirs.

I think you should probably cut it there. I think you will be out of time by the time you demo it and walk around and help students sort out issues they are having. First set will look like they were chewed by a beaver. It is the second set where things really start to sink in but the first set takes a lot of time to get through.

Later, demonstrate a half blind and have the students cut theirs.

Then a discussion of how to glue and clamp the joint, with perhaps a demonstration. And how to trim the joint with a plane after the glue has set.

No project - just pieces of wood joined together. I could add a section on how to repair mistakes in dovetails, but I might not have time to cover that in detail.

With the exception of how to plane it flush, I would cut all this as I predict you are out of time after the through devetail.

Just my $0.02 from a recent student's perspective.

[Jim Koepke]

That seems very ambitious for 6 hours.

I think I would show people how to use a bevel gauge and mention that marking gauges can be bought or made, show examples if you have them.

I also think that a saw exercise is important. I do it often before cutting joinery.

jim

[Ken Cohen]

As a relatively recent student, I would ditto several points that were made in the prior posts:

1. Assuming that you are teaching relative novices, add a basic sawing and chiseling exercise prior to taking on their first dovetail. I second the sawing exercise. For chisels, I would focus on paring to a flat surface and creating a right angle. These exercises need not be long, but they allow practice -- and more importantly, create a venue where mistakes are encouraged and consequence free.

2. A handout of the process for through and half blind dovetails is a great idea. During the exercises, it provides a place to take notes. And, as suggested, most people won't remember all the steps (and I'm not sure that it's important that they do).

3. A question: How do you plan to handle tool condition? I know you lack the time to go into tool prep, etc. But, what about dull saws and chisels?

Good luck.

Ken

[Sean Hughto]

Well, before I can answer, I need to know whether you will be teaching tails first or pins? ;-)

[Mike Brady]

I'd advocate less rather than more in six hours. Your schedule up through the class cutting their through dovetails....the first try.... sounds good. Spend plenty of time on the layout aspect and have them I would have them take a second try after critiquing each student's first effort. It is important that they leave with a sense of real accomplishment. Show them fixes, where they didn't follow their marks, how important the correct layout is to the final result, and how much planing improves the outcome. At this point some students will be ready for half-blinds, but others will need more help. You can let them spend the last hour independently working, but again, try to have each feel good about whatever progress they made.
Have some well-cut joints available for them to take apart and study.

[Eric Brown]

Mike, I'm surprised no one here has said this yet but how about a handout that lists Internet resources - like SawMill Creek!

Maybe a suppliers list. LN, LV, TFWW etc.

Support after the class might be what keeps them going.

Eric