GFCI Question

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi,

I have a Hot Springs Spa. There is 110 v at the outlet. The power cord from the spa terminates in a large plug which contains a GFCI. The plug is a proprietary Hot Spring Spa unit with the GFCI built into it. Therefore, I cannot change it like could change a GFCI in a house outlet.

The spa is dead. That’s as dead as if it were in the middle of the Sahara desert 100 miles from the nearest source of power (no lights, no motor, no heat, no etc.).

GFCI

The GFCI pilot light is on so there is power getting to the unit.
Press the “Reset” button and the pilot light goes off.
Release the “Reset” button and the light comes back on.

Press the “Test” button and the light goes out.
Press the “Reset” button and the light comes back on. I pressed the “Reset” button immediately after the “Test” button and I repeated the procedure again with a couple minutes before pressing the “Reset” button. The results were the same.

When pressing the “Test” or “Reset” button there is a “click” sound. However, there is only a slight movement of the “Reset” button, not a large movement like the GFCI button on the outlets in the house.

In all instances the spa just sat there doing nothing.

The problem could be elsewhere. However, it really appears that power is just not getting to the spa. If the problem was an overheating motor tripping its own “Reset” button, it would not kill the entire spa. I could not find a “Reset” button on the heating unit.

Any and all advice will gratefully be accepted and I thank you in advance.

Enjoy,

Jim

[Bryan Rocker]

Good evening Jim,

I have a Hot Springs Jet Setter II and love it. Have you checked the lines going down to the motor with a meter to make sure you don't have something wrong with your cord? You can access it by pulling those 4 screws just to the left of the panel.

As to the propietary GFCI, you can replace the outlet in the wall with a GFCI outlet and put on a standard 20A plug on it. You may have to buy an outside location cover, maybe not.

One thing you might want to do is call the Hot Springs folks. Here in Dayton, they are very supportive and will help me fix it if need be.

Bryan

[Pat Germain]

FYI, all GFCI outlets are designed to stop working after so many years. You must replace them and that's that. There's no fixing them. It may be that the time is simply up on your spa GFCI.

[Gene Howe]

FYI, all GFCI outlets are designed to stop working after so many years. You must replace them and that's that. There's no fixing them. It may be that the time is simply up on your spa GFCI.

Wow. I didn't know that. All mine are still working. In the shop, I installed a GFCI breaker.....expensive dude. I hope it doesn't have a planned obsolescence.

[Mitchell Andrus]

FYI, all GFCI outlets are designed to stop working after so many years. You must replace them and that's that. There's no fixing them. It may be that the time is simply up on your spa GFCI.

Where do you get that?

I googled "GFCI life expectancy" and got one good hit. From the UNITED STATES CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION:

"In 1982, at about the time that GFCIs entered widespread use, Underwriters Laboratories estimated that the expected useful life of GFCIs averaged about 40 years."

If they timed out as a matter of design, we'd all know it by now, no? (and there would be a line at HD for the next shipment) I've got some still in service that are 25 years old. I'll bet they wear out, but time out?

www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/ecgfci.pdf

[Bruce Volden]

FYI, all GFCI outlets are designed to stop working after so many years. You must replace them and that's that. There's no fixing them. It may be that the time is simply up on your spa GFCI.

I have worked with GFCI's in the past and I tend to agree with this statement. That being said however, you get what you pay for. Have you ever noticed you can buy brand new receptacles at the Borgs on sale for
$.89???? Please save your money and buy the 3+$ ones. GFCI's are similar. But, you're talking propietary here so I will not pass judgement. I'd call the Co. and talk with them since it's propietary, if the fix is outrageously expensive I'd look into Bryan's advice. Not much help I know-sorry.

Bruce

[Pat Germain]

Where do you get that?

I got it directly from the instructions which came with the GFCI outlets I installed in my shop. I don't have the booklet right now, but it clearly stated something to the effect of, "This unit is designed to work for blah blah. When it fails, it must be replaced blah blah...".

Here's an article which specifically mentions GFCI End of Life (EOL):

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/2161/docserve.aspx

Note:

On some of the GFCI outlets, the End of Life (EOL) is not displayed via LED. EOL is reached
when the RESET button no longer engages (or does not stay pressed in) and GFCI output power is
denied. On others, it is the combination of LED and RESET button position that reflects EOL. For
example, on Pass&Seymour 1595-W, if LED is on and RESET button does not stay pressed in, the GFCI

outlet has reached its EOL.

[Chris Damm]

I must have bought better quality GFCI outlets than you did. Mine still work fine after 29 years.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I got it directly from the instructions which came with the GFCI outlets I installed in my shop. I don't have the booklet right now, but it clearly stated something to the effect of, "This unit is designed to work for blah blah. When it fails, it must be replaced blah blah...".

Here's an article which specifically mentions GFCI End of Life (EOL):

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/2161/docserve.aspx

Note:

On some of the GFCI outlets, the End of Life (EOL) is not displayed via LED. EOL is reached
when the RESET button no longer engages (or does not stay pressed in) and GFCI output power is
denied. On others, it is the combination of LED and RESET button position that reflects EOL. For
example, on Pass&Seymour 1595-W, if LED is on and RESET button does not stay pressed in, the GFCI

outlet has reached its EOL.

I've seen that too, but it doesn't mention timing out. It mentions End Of Life. Exposure to water and repeated tripping are known to cause any breaker to fail prematurely.
.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I have worked with GFCI's in the past and I tend to agree with this statement. That being said however, you get what you pay for. Have you ever noticed you can buy brand new receptacles at the Borgs on sale for
$.89???? Please save your money and buy the 3+$ ones. GFCI's are similar. But, you're talking propietary here so I will not pass judgement. I'd call the Co. and talk with them since it's propietary, if the fix is outrageously expensive I'd look into Bryan's advice. Not much help I know-sorry.

Bruce

I agree that the cheap stuff sometimes doesn't last as long as a really fine piece of equipment. But, the idea that GFCI manufacturers would ALL install a count-down timer that causes the failure of a safety device is a little far-fetched.... and may be absolutely illegal.

Although.... I'd manufacture airbags that prevented your car from starting until you bought a new one if I could. Imagine the boost to the economy!!!!!
.
.

[Jamie Buxton]

There is one piece of household electronics that is designed to wear out. The detector in a carbon monoxide monitor is some organic stuff that truly does go bad in ten years or so. At that point, the monitor starts chirping at you to replace the thing.

[Pat Germain]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest GFCIs have a "countdown timer". Rather, I'm saying the newer models are designed to stop working after a certain amount of use, which will vary.

If you've had GFCIs for 29 years, those weren't designed to stop working like the new units are. It's not a matter of cheap vs. quality. All new GFCIs are designed to stop working when they've reached "End of Life". While intent may have been to ensure the GFCIs actually worked when needed, the result is you can have them working fine for years, then one day they won't reset and you have to replace them.

[Lee Schierer]

To the OP, go to the nearest Harbor Freight store an buy one of their $3.00 VOM's. Stick the probes into the receptacle and try your various tests. If the VOM says there is voltage then the GFI probably is working. If it stays at zero then the GFI is dead and you need a new one.

If you get voltage your problem lies elsewhere in your system.